Work From Home Tips | Gina DeLapa

 Today we have Gina DeLapa. An entrepreneur has been working for home for more than 15 years. She talks about insights from working from home on how to find peace and isolation. How to set goals without overshooting or "Burnout" syndrome.


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Unlike the irony of a bad but you know, high class problem, first of all problems total. Totally Yeah. Speaking of first world problems, let's get right into our whole essence of the interview Gina. Okay. So today we have Gina, I'm gonna butcher your name to lupa, the lappa. The lap, lap, just like it. Just like it sounds wonderful. We have we have an interview today with Gina de lappa. We're going to go into work from home, the logistics, the pros and cons and all that he or she is Gina. Hi, Josh. It's a delight to be here on your show. Thank you so much. You didn't thank you for coming on. Absolutely. So let's just said this. Let's get right into it. You said you are specialized in the work from home aspect? Well, I guess if you want to call it that. Yes. I have actually been working from home. Long before it was a thing. And I have to tell you, Josh, I kind of liked it better when it was my idea. But you know, I think that's kind of the the rub that people are feeling right now. But yes, I've been working from home since about 2007 2008. So I've had some time to get used to it. And obviously technology has changed a great deal. But yeah, I was still one COVID hit last year. I mean, I still felt it because we were all so restricted. You couldn't even go to Starbucks, you couldn't get seriously. Ah, yeah. So So I understand the struggle. I understand the, you know, the struggle people had in working from home in the first place. And now the struggle to return to an office because the whole world has changed dramatically is an understatement. I mean, it's just been turned upside down. And pretty much like I tell everyone 2020 is just a trash fire. ignore it. Well, I saw a sign in January, and I took it I liked it so much. I took a picture of it. It said something like, ever notice how 2021 sounds like 2020 w o n 120 21? Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, I know. So Mmm. It's humorous, but it's all sobering. It is. Yes. Yeah. So 2020 we'll just leave that in the rearview mirror. It's the redheaded stepchild. We don't look at it. Just don't give it attention. hadn't heard put that way before. But yes, that's, that's apropos. apropos Why? Thank you. So we were talking earlier about the trends in the logistics. So I actually feel like working from home is a potential more hazard for time theft. How do you think it wouldn't be? Well, okay, I, you know, I didn't call it call me, Lisa Simpson, call me Pollyanna. But I think my philosophy is be trustworthy, hiring people you trust, and then trust them. When you talk about time theft. I don't even really like that term, because it puts the emphasis on how long was the person on their computer? Or how long was their butt in a seat? Instead of what's their output? What's the quality of their work? What's it like to work with them and to collaborate with them? I think that's where we need to put our emphasis. I really do. And I think the the high performing self driven people on on a team want that and don't don't want to be monitored. And you know, just it'll take whatever time it takes, whether it's more or less, just, I don't know. How do you feel about that? Am I the only one? No, I haven't. I have a similar view. But I've also because of the lockdown. I've been talking to different people. And one of them was like this lady who actually works for the hospitals, she was back office. So they sent her home. She has three cameras on her at all given times your computer's always listening to her. And, okay, and she's just like, literally, if I go one minute over on my break, and they just they charged the living daylights out of me with right up some like, that's so unrealistic. They wouldn't do that in the office. Well, and it's it's not only unrealistic, it's inhumane. It is. I mean, it really is. And I think I you know, as I was preparing for our talk today, Josh, I was thinking about a conversation and I think a lot of it boils down to how does the employer view the employee does they do they view themselves and and the people under Team as, you know, human beings with hearts and lives and inherent worth? Or do they view them as potential enemies, like this person is going to go over break a minute longer? And I'm going to have to, you know, write them a slip? Or you know, I don't know. But I think so much of our so many of our policies and our ways of structuring the workplace flow out of that basic view that we very often don't even take time to question. But you know, you mentioned the woman working from home and at a hospital, and I've heard similar things of, Okay, if you have, if you go home early, let's say, it doesn't matter. The reason it could be your mother's in the hospital, it could be you have the sniffles doesn't matter, you're gonna get a point. Like, you got a ticket, and you get points on your license or something. And I know many of these points. I mean, and I know somebody who went through this, and it was an extreme family emergency, and doesn't matter points, his points, and I just thought, Wow, you just demoralized a fantastic person on your team. So, you know, look at that basic assumption, that basic premise of how do we view other people and it doesn't mean you coddle or you don't hold them to standards, and you don't, I'm all about accountability. But even accountability springs out of a view of you have dignity and worth, and I would not be upholding your dignity if I didn't hold you to a standard. Yes, no, very true. Yeah, it's just like I've during this whole thing, still working as a janitor on the night shift, and with the lock downs and all that. Essentially. It's interesting watching the dynamics of people's just switching kind of thing. Switching you mean from similar about that? So I've noticed a lot more entitlement than more than usual. Yes, I've noticed more entitlement to more selfish instant gratification. Before people like simple thing like waiting in line. When the first day he lockdowns it was insane, like literally was a two hour trip just to get a carrot kind of thing. But now it's reasonable. It's like 1010 minutes tops, like with all your walking and all that. But if they can't get in and out within five minutes, they throw a fit. And it's like, yeah, it's just one of those. I'm like, Guys, we don't have the like hordes of people anymore. The virus is going down, still be smart. But like, why are you needing everything now? Can I think like, everything's not grubhub? You can't just corporate 20 minutes later Get it? Right. Well, yes. And I think that speaks to entitlement, like you said, an entitlement that people rarely question or put into a broader perspective. And I think maybe it speaks to a fear, this fear of if I don't get what's mine, right now, and something's wrong. And you know, the world revolves around me kind of a thing. And it's a dangerous place to be. I don't know, anybody who's entitled and happy. I just don't. Very good observation. I haven't actually put those two together. Yeah. Yeah. And they're not happy to be around. So, look, I understand. we all we all have our preferences. We're all human. You know, I'm volunteering tomorrow to get the vaccine. You know, there's no question that I prefer some vaccines over another, but you get what you get. And not everyone has the luxury and so welcome to the human race, you know, doesn't mean you know, you can have your preferences about things, your opinions, but you don't have to put them on social media and you don't have to act out. Come on, you know, we're all hey, yeah, do the best we can here. Yeah, no, the the. There's also the other thing I was thinking within the timestamped is like they still get their job done. But I mean, even before the lockdowns people were doing is like scrolling on social media when they shouldn't be. Yes. Or just a little extra nowadays. Well, yes. And but you know what that goes on every day in workplaces. I mean, it requires a manager who's got the guts to say, hey, that's a standard we have. We don't do that during the work day. Do that on your lunch hour or, you know, take it, take it off site. I don't mean work from home. I mean, do that on your own time, because that I do think sets a dangerous example. For everyone else saying, Well, why should I bust my tail when, you know, these three people are always on Instagram, you know what I'm saying that the moralizing to the people who are working hard and holding themselves to a high standard, but, you know, that comes down to a management thing. And it's a tell you, I had a professor who said to our class was and this may apply to the workplace, don't do anything in class that's going to distract me from teaching, or distract your classmates from learning. Interesting, I think there's a parallel in the workplace, don't do anything that's going to undermine my management or undermine the work ethic of the people around you. Yeah, no, I would agree with that. We've recently with my store, there's a lot of younger kids, like the 21 and younger, we hire miners for the box people just to get them job experience and all that. And, but it's super hard to talk to them, they have no worth that work ethic at all. Like literally, they've been spoon fed, like the moment they came out. So like telling someone to scrub meat off the floor. They've literally I've watched them, I come in later, and they're still there. They're on their iPod, you're scrolling on Instagram, and the back of the camera can't see him. And then they don't want to scrub the meat off the floor. And it's like you're making it hard for the morning people like do it. Well, and my guess is that you're not asking them to do anything that you haven't done yourself. Right? Yeah, I work hard. And but these kids literally they just they sit there and they're like the moment it gets just, they have to get their elbows a little wet and water like nope. Well, kids, this isn't you know, look, I mean, you and I are probably have a similar generation, but I cleaned toilets and Larry's broasted chicken. Okay. Chris, we're recording Hey, you know, it's while it's out there now, but not on my resume. But that was not fun, you know? So, but hey, life's tough, you know, and not every job is glamorous. But if you learn something from it, my parents taught me that every job teaches you something, even if it's what you don't want, but you got to scrub the meat off the floor. That's what needs to be done. And it saddens me to hear hear that about the work ethic and I'm not completely surprised but it's it's it's very sad and like i i out of politeness I met like I'll text the meet manager be like Hey, like it's bad. If you are scheduled for five come in at five don't don't do your early stuff. Now and but you know, there's a principle in boundaries that says, Let the person who created the problem own the consequences. Yeah. Yeah, and it's easier said than done. But when you were talking about like the zero work ethic and everything spoon fed, there's a quote I don't even know who said it. It was like an a letter to the editor many years ago, but I liked it so much. I saved it. Some people are born on third base and go through life thinking they hit a triple Yeah. Hey, kids, there's no third base here. Get to work. Send me a you know, snap a picture on of it if you want on your phone when it's done. But yeah, that's, that's very tough. It is. And it's one of those. Like, we I've casually just asked the manager cuz I like talking to him. I also can get more stuff done when he tells me what exactly he expects. And I just asked him like, hey, the kids that are like super hard to talk to. I know, I'm awkward. And it's hard to understand me. But like just saying hi. They get all sheepish and like crawl in the corner. He's like, yeah, they're all on their phones, Instagram to listen to the music. They don't know human interaction. He's like, that's where he said in his context. He didn't say like this. He's like, essentially, the gens ears are screwed when it comes to work. Because of that lack of social context and social interaction and work ethic here. Yeah. Well, and I think, I think some of that started with Gen Y, you know, the millennial generation just because, you know, they they've had texting most of their lives. And so I mean, back when I was a university career counselor, I can remember hearing this was like in the early 2000s. roommates would be sitting back to back in their, in their dorm room and texting each other. You know, as opposed to turn up the TV or whatever texting you mean, kind of a foreign foreign world to a lot of us. But you know, and again, I'm all for being tech savvy. But yes, you do need. You do need that other piece. And yet I know other I know, parents, you know, in my circle who are raising Jen's ears who grew up volunteering grew up seeing people who had far less than they did, and learning gratitude, and learning to connect with people who didn't have the privileges they did and and they have a good work ethic. So yes, I think there are generational trends. And I don't know, I'm not gonna say anything about parents, because I am not a parent. very fair. I'm not either. Yeah. And I heard someone say, once I was the perfect mother until I became until I had a child or something to that effect. Yeah. So I'm not going to rag on parents, but, but I think much of that comes from the parents. I mean, my parents made me start working, shouldn't say they made me they let me start working at age 10, which was fun, in the sense that it was summertime and, you know, like, actually got paid a certain amount per hour and felt we were grown up when it wasn't, it wasn't fun when it was Christmas break. And, you know, the day after Christmas, and I got to get up before the crack of dawn, and go with them into work. I didn't like that, but taught me something. And you know, I never I've never regretted it. In hindsight, the getting the work ethic built in. Yeah, I remember that to actually at a young age. I, I didn't know it back then. But I guess I had an entrepreneurial spark and it was just one of those. My grandfather just taught me how to mow at, like 1213 he paid me 20 bucks a week to mow his lawn. Now I realized he was just being very generous to help me out. But was that that moment is when it sparked a microwave. I can do 20 for him. I had that harsh realization when I'm going to someone else. Oh, that you can't charge that much. Yeah, rescue that young. Then I just I'm like, okay, who will then I have to do to launch the equal one. So I just kept getting clients had two clients. At a certain point, I had a nice little cash empire of like, 600 a week. Holy smokes. But it was not. Right. And it was just one of those. It all started from the work ethic for my grandfather saying, I'm getting too old for this shit. I'll pay you $20 a week to do it for me. Wow. Yeah. And for him. But that's the thing. It's charging based on value, not on the fact that you're a young kid, and it only takes you an hour or whatever. It's like, no, it's it's an opportunity cost here. If I take this off your plate, that's more time that you can relax or read the paper or do other more important things. Yeah, it's funny, I had the opposite problem, because I got paid 50 cents an hour. Oh, no. So when I got minimum wage, I was like, Man lab of luxury here, right? I mean, if granted, this was many, many moons ago. But Wow, I still teach my parents 50 cents an hour. Wow. Anyway, it's funny the things we remember. Yeah. And just the whole correlation with that is what like, I joke with people in my work. They don't know my backstory, they just know I'm the quirky guy that does a podcast now. And essentially, one of them's like, Why do you do your job that you do when you could like, move on mic? Well, is it there's two reasons. I said looked at him serious. Would you scrub it off the toilet? For 1440 an hour? And they're like, no, my there you go have job security, because you won't do it. And no sane person even during the heated lockdowns and unemployment. Like no one was beating down the doors to come scrub people's toilets. They'd rather take the government cheddar didn't come here. Wow. But that says so much. You know about you know, there's a principle I don't know if you ever heard of a guy named Jim Rohn. I've heard the name I haven't actually like looked into his stuff. Okay. Yeah, he's he passed on about maybe 10 years ago. But he was a motivational guy. But he used to say the main question to ask on the job is not what am I getting? It's what am i becoming? Yes, you know, building in a work ethic if you can, if you can scrub toilets, with a smile on your face, what else could you do? You know, with a smile on your face. And it's it's, it's honest, you know, there's no shame and honest work. Oh, my goodness, there's not I have heard that complaint as well that people would rather sit home and like they were making more with the relief check. And anyway, that's a whole other thing. I I jokingly told my coworkers I'm like, Man, I'm doing this all wrong. I could have literally made like, one in one month, I could have made two months. I didn't like oh, but I'm the idiot that decided to come in. Say that last part. Again, I said I was the idiot that decided to come in. Well, but I'm guessing when your head hits the pillow at night, there's a certain satisfaction. There is there is an I also realized if I did stay home and take all that money, I'd go crazy. I'd be literally doing paces around the house. Like I don't know what to do with myself. Well, it's about respecting the person in the mirror. Sure, yes. Yeah. I mean, it's the person whose judgment we have to pass in this world. So you know, more power to you. Similar to that, when my parents were first married, they were you know, I mean, they were just like, broke first generation college students and, and didn't get to have a lot of funds coming in from their first jobs out of college. And they, I remember them telling me a story of I forget all the details, but they wasn't born yet. They seems like they worked for a couple in exchange for, like rent. So they, they worked there and and got their room and board, basically, but they had to do things, you know, help with meals and lawns, and all this kind of stuff. And when it came time for them to move on. Oh, and everyone told them how lucky they were to have this arrangement? Well, they had to work for it. And you know, when the time came for them to move on. From from that place? None of the friends who said how lucky they were took them up on it. When they said hey, there's going to be a vacancy. Yeah, I'm saying so, you know, can't have it both ways. Yeah, it's the double standard and attempt, we don't even realize we're doing it. That's very true. So So what else should we talk about here? So I want to get your perspective and trends on stay at home. And the the working from home? Because you've been doing it for at least more than 10 years? Yes. Yeah. Well, and again, I think a lot of it does come down to if it's mandated, or if it's something chosen. I just think that affects the experience completely. There have been concerns about well, more women are choosing to stay home and more men are choosing to come into a physical office and, and how that can play into the disparity and pay because you know, I mean, being in a physical workplace, yes, it does have its advantages. There's more real time collaboration, I think problems get solved faster, way faster. Your your work is kind of more visible, obviously. So kind of like your Yeah, your your work and results are more on display. Presumably that's a good thing. And yeah, and, and obviously, it fills a human need for interaction and human contact and so forth. But remote again, remote offers the advantages of flexibility and autonomy, which are two things that have been shown to be something high performers, put a high, high value on. Don't tell me when to show up, or how to get my work done. Again, goes back to hire people you trust and trust them and that doesn't mean hang them up to dry. It doesn't mean maybe throwing them to the wolves and say fend for yourself. It requires support but but but for some people who may be caring for school aged kids or their parents or both. There's something to be said for having flexibility and autonomy and more time with your family. But again, I think the key is to as best you can as an employer offer options and don't assume it you know that people want one over the other, give people a voice, give people some agency. So would you think also with this trend of staying home and the autonomy and flexible schedules, it has also introduced to managers the a different way of managing, like, more, introducing more, instead of they make all the decisions, the employees make a majority, but ultimately, the manager finishes it kind of thing? Or do you think we're gonna stick with the old schedule? No, no, I mean, I think managers roles have changed completely. And my concern is that they're not prepared to take on some of the more nuanced roles that they're now having to serve. So as far as decision making, where that falls at, I haven't given a lot of thought to that. But yes, it makes sense that more would be on the, on the employee, if they're working from home. But again, I think employers have always valued employees who took initiative, and problem solved and didn't come to them for everything. So I, if that is the case, that employees are making more decisions, and the lawyers kind of just more, you know, signing off on it, so to speak, I think that's a positive trend. or something else I was going to say about, oh, just employers and managers are having to, you know, they're seeing much more of their people's personal lives on display, I mean, just even say, from a zoom call, where kids interrupt or their dog or whatever I mean, and they're more in touch with the struggles that their team is going through. And now, and I'm not saying it's good or bad, but the manager now has to be a better listener, a better collaborator, they have to be more proactive about checking in, and not just around a table where everybody's present, but also one on one, because people are going to say things, one on one that they won't necessarily to a group, find out, you know, what would be helpful for me to know about you? Or what, what are you going through? Or how's your energy? And how can I help? And so it's learning to, you know, ask the right questions, listen to the responses, and then, you know, respond appropriately. Easier said than done. But that's, that's where managers need to be aligning. Indeed, I agree. The biggest trend I've been seeing is the employee morale from working from home, is because of the you treated you still like a number. Like the example of the lady earlier, where they're watching her and listen to everything she does it. It almost seems like we don't know how to cope with the concept of them being home kind of thing. Well, yes. Or maybe cope with the concept that even work from home, or maybe especially work from home has to have some boundaries. Yes, there has to be a stopping point. And don't just think you can email at 11pm or 6am and get an instant answer. People need time, you know, team, they need time away. But here's what I would say about morale. Number one, I guess Don't. Don't force socialization. Yes, we need that. But, you know, I kind of wince when I hear. Well, we're gonna just we're gonna start having zoom happy hours. And they're going to go to that. Well. Not everyone's on board with that. That's just so I would say, don't don't force it, but maybe allow it and create some conditions where, yeah, you there's a Slack channel, and you can go on it. And no, we're not gonna monitor what you say. And there has to be some trust involved on on both sides. But I think it starts with with management and leadership. And yes, there there needs to be some discussion around Well, what would be most helpful, but again, I think managers make this harder when they assume they know what the solution is, and they hand it down from on high. You know, well, we're going to have, I don't know, wine and cheese over, you know, over the Internet Well, again, or some kind of social outing, talk to your team and let them have some saying, you know, we know you're working from home, we know that's isolating and And probably alienating and frustrating? What do you need to feel more connected? And, and we'll build from there. But again, ask good questions and just listen. Because again, I have seen managers try to just come in and be the savior, and it may take some further off course. Yes, it does. Yeah, and friendships, you've probably heard a lot about this. I know it's been documented. I've heard it from a number of places, too, that yes, having even one good friend at work can reduce burnout and absenteeism and, you know, turnover and all these things. The one thing that's never talked about in those discussions that I think needs to be talked about is choose your friends carefully. Yeah, you know, you can have no, you can have a friend who lifts you up, and helps you do your best work, or somebody who feeds your worst tendencies. Or there's the third one I've noticed, especially my co workers is they lift you up, they make you feel great. And they have you lean a little forward, kick the chair and put the noose around your neck, and then you're struggling and then they make it seem like they're being good and putting the chair back. Oh, are super toxic. That's Yeah, that is a glow in the dark red flag is Yeah, that's a real joke. That's why they work night shift because they can't function in normal society. But they're not too weird that they can't have a job kind of thing. Wow. No, that is that is horrible. It sounds like what you're describing is like passive aggressive to the highest pitch. Oh, my God. Yeah. Sort of gaslighting Ooh. If there's a sketch on SNL, I saw it on YouTube. And it's a little coarser than probably what I would put on my own website. But it makes its point, but it's called passive aggressive Pam. might be worth checking out. With all due respect to people named Pam, because I have a dear friend named Pam. This happens to be what the schedule is called. But it takes place in a workplace between a manager and an employee. And yeah, yikes. Yeah, those people you need to get away from and oh, yeah, I'm working on getting a better job in general. is just right now I got to deal with them. Like, the funny thing, I'll change her name, because she would haunt me if she figured out this. We'll call her Sarah. That's not her name. But Sarah is a very bossy, bitchy needs to know everything, but doesn't do actually her job. Other than that, she's great. Yes. So her very essence drains you. Yeah. So it's one of those she jokes with? I have to tell myself she's joking. She's not that, like, Oh, you have to break your back for the company. You got to clean this, you got to do that. But then I watch her work. And she wastes for hours talking to people. And then last second starts working. And I'm blames me for her lack of work. But he owes me if I tried to tell her to work. Yeah, that's called a drama switch. Right? Yeah. Yeah. You know what, and that will be your motivation to get out, get into a better place. Something I was going to say along those lines. Oh, I've said for years be where the person who's got 45 minutes to tell you how busy they are? Yes. Oh my gosh. Yeah. You know, you've seen you've met that person as well. Even if it's just 10 minutes. That's, that's literally nine minutes too long. Yeah, exactly in nine and a half. And yeah, you're not gonna change people like that. And something someone told me a long time ago is is really helpful. It's more than a tip kind of a life approach that when you run into somebody who's difficult in whatever manner, instead of trying to figure out well, are they really difficult or is that just their way? Forget about analyzing them. Just ask yourself, like, how do I feel on this person's presence? Yeah, that's what's happening to me on the inside when Sarah comes into the room or, and just pay attention to the vibe and I heard Sam Lamott, author of our son of author Anne Lamott quoted him in one of her books as saying vibe is everything. It is it is and we can say those things in California, can't we? Yeah. Don't if you don't talk about your vibe, then you're in trouble. And you got bad energy. Yeah, but But yeah, pay attention to that vibe, because it means something. It's the signal. And yeah, that's not okay. Just not okay at all. It's not. And so one thing I've noticed from just in general with the work at home trend is so I've been booking appointments and like, I got you, and we've confirmed via email. Well, this one guy, we did the whole dance and charade. And then last second, no call no show. And I just sit there and I'm like, you reached out to me, and then you didn't show why, like, dude, I like rearranged my whole day for you. People don't realize that people don't realize that, that yes, I moved other things. I you know, arranged my office certain way, or whatever the case is, so that we could have this appointment. And yeah, when you distress disrespect somebody heart or time. Those are fighting words. And I mean that literally, but it's like, that's the ultimate slap the ultimate show of disrespect. It really is. And like, it was one of those. He was like, begging and pleading. And I'm like, all right, geez here like, here's my book. And then literally, he had the audacity the email me afterwards, like, Where the hell were you? I'm like, where are you? Oh, that's again. That's another drama switch. Yeah, yeah. No, I actually ran into someone like that. different circumstances, but similar dynamic. As a church volunteer many years ago, and I just said no more. Yeah, not what I signed up for and tell you a quick, funny story that kind of relates to the showing up late, but this guy didn't show up at all, which is far worse. A friend of mine was interviewing a student, we were both working in a Career Services Office. And he was doing a practice interview at the students request. So she sauntered in late. And he said, I got good news, bad news. Good news is I'm still going to do your practice interview. The bad news is he didn't get the job. Oh, yeah. You know, because you showed up late. You don't do not show up late to an interview and you don't stand somebody up. Especially especially when you said Dude, this was your idea in the first place. I accommodated you. And now we're done. Yeah. Yeah. Like, in general. Recently, I've been just looking on indeed for jobs. And I found like a big job. I was like, sweet, like, I have no credentials. This will take me. We're gonna have to do a Coronavirus like zoom meeting. Deal. That's fine. Like, I want to do this anyway, to see what it like a zoom interview is kind of thing. And so the guys booked it, I went to his calendly and all that. It was next day. That was where I thought it was kind of weird. he booked it the next day, but I'm like, okay, I show up 10 o'clock. The guy that asked me to come to interview didn't show. Yeah, see, here's the thing. And this is not stressed enough. When you the candidate are interviewing and looking for new work, we put so much emphasis on how to be liked by the employer and how to make a good first impression. What we don't talk about is, Hey, keep your eyes open. And make sure this is somebody that you like and respect and are going to want to work for. You know, and again, it's not to be entitled, but it's Hey, you did your part. You showed up you checked all the right boxes. You went through all the right channels. Yeah, and that's, you know, Maya Angelou said, What was her safe statement? I'll get this when someone shows you who they are. believe them the first time. Sorry, my dog, the mailman just came. Do I need to repeat them? Yes, please. Sure. He said. Maya Angelou said when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time. Yes, yeah. And that doesn't mean you know, it's not that I'd never cut anybody any slack or grace but especially when there's no awareness or no apology. That tells me what I need to know. So you know, Thank you, Mister painter, interviewer for saving me. Several months or years of graduation Yeah, that was one thing I told my parents it was just like, because I live with them. And it was just one of those, Mike. Okay. He asked me for an interview, he set up everything and he didn't show Mike, even if I wanted the job and it was gonna be great. If he's late for an interview, what else is he going to be late for? Yeah, and this is before he's made the sale. Exactly. Right. And I'm going to tell you something similar along those along those lines? I don't know. But yeah, you do have to slash get to, you really do need to pay attention to that. And then and I think a good question to ask in an interview is what is it like to work here? And you'll be surprised that people are pretty candid. And I interviewed someone years ago as a student for an article I was writing and two different jobs. He turned them down, because he said, he asked me what is it like to work here? Question and both told them. People don't really like it, and they tend not to stay long. You know, what's funny? So when I did my application and my process for my job, I asked a similar question. But I was young, dumb, and I didn't know. I was desperate to I was unemployed. I said, as the same thing. I'm like, hey, so what's it like working here? Like, it's the kind of job once you're in, you never leave. I took it as a great thing. I'm like sweet job security. I'm like, now that I'm here, am I Oh, is the job you hate, but it pays you? Well, it's kind of like, yeah, is that the set of promises or a threat? Right? Yeah. Well, and I think another good question to ask is, because, again, you've got a strong work ethic, and you know who you are. And you're solid in that. And you get to ask some some questions to how would you describe your ideal employ? And if they say, I want someone who will, you know, get down on all four floors? If I asked them to, and, and art like a no, I don't You don't? I'm saying if they get Right, right, right. Dream, then like, Okay, good to know. Or, but if they say, I like someone who shows up on time and takes initiative, and asks, How else can I serve? Or be you know, how else can I grow? I like people who are ambitious. Okay, you've got me that, you know, right? You're looking for an entrepreneurial spirit. But right now is either struggling, or just needs a job to get ahead kind of thing. Right? Yeah, but you do learn a lot. And yeah, good to have those. Good to ask those questions. A lot of good information. So I'm taking gate you do your stay at home work? Is it a type of consulting or coaching? Yeah, I mean, I've done some coaching by zoom, especially, you know, in these in these times, and and what I would love to be doing more of is getting out there and doing more speaking as I once did. You know, right now the workplace is in such a flux. And as you said, at the beginning of the interview, we are coming out of this pandemic, thank goodness, but we're not there yet. Right? We just have not checked all those boxes. And we may not for some time. But But yeah, I like to think of myself as being in the encouragement business. Because everybody needs that no matter who they are. And so whether it's one on one coaching or doing a keynote, or doing some, you know, doing some training with new hires, that's, that's where I like to be is interacting with, with people. So for your motivational part, you mentioned you'd like motivational talking and speaking, do you do TED Talks when it was the thing? I have not. And I looked into that about three to four years ago. And I talked to some people who had done them and and, you know, I TEDx talks, that's kind of where you start. And, and the jury was kind of out and it wasn't necessarily a home run. As far as you know, igniting your business and so forth. It was kind of nice to see we've done one, but that might be something I actually add back onto the list because, again, goes back to the principle we talked about earlier, for what it will make of you to achieve it. Right. So thank you that just inspired me to putting that back on the list. Yeah, and it's gonna definitely be one. With all the government stimulus and people being pent up, they'll Navy, let's say the meeting was normally $100 a day it might be like 600, and you get like, half of that per person. So might might be one of those like, I should just do it because there's a lot of money out there. Well, yeah, touch touch a lot of lives that would be entered at that too. Yes. Yeah. I was trying to do a go for a very dark satire there. It didn't work. I'm with ya. And I'm worthy. I, I have an entrepreneurial streak in me too. But it's not like, my father is like an entrepreneurs entrepreneur. And he's the man's man. Yeah, he's a he's just like a wild eyed entrepreneur. And I've Yeah, seen that my whole life and I'm more like entrepreneur light. At the Miller light versus the other. Bud Light, but yeah, okay. Okay. All right. Oh, calm or even that just got I don't know. Anyway. What but what else? What else? Should we address or or anything about morale? I want to say I want to go into morale, you had very good insights that so the work from home dynamic, big brother watching us and all that? What are some tips and tricks that you do? Because you work from home to keep your morale up? Okay, well, have a good day, Josh, not every day, I get out for a morning walk. Just start the day with some fresh air and just say, okay, and, you know, try to prioritize working out because I think it adds energy and focus to the whole day. Someone told me years ago, and they didn't tell me directly I was sitting in this person seminar, but he was talking to entrepreneurs, solopreneurs, and he said, You got into this to make it a better life for yourself. So let it be a better life. Meaning, you know, it's what's the saying of with entrepreneurs, they will work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week? Yes, mouse something to that effect. And so yeah, so I mean, on Saturday, it was working till, like past 10pm. And then wasn't really very enjoyable. But I had to be done. And but but while there are more hours to be worked, and more things to do, there's also more flexibility. And sometimes the only one stopping me on that is me. So I'm a big believer in structure. I just I need a certain amount of structure. So whether it's, you know, planning the day ahead, and I've got a lot of tools that I use for that. I also have an amazing assistant, who is very gifted with systems. And so she helps me set up systems to maybe not automate some of my work every month, streamline Yes, and put some structure and give a process to these things. So I'm not having to figure it out. every single week, or every single day, that kind of thing. Yeah, so I think take breaks. But here's a big one. And it's taken me a long time. Kind of embrace this, but trust yourself, mean what a concept mean? Trust yourself that the work will get done to a high standard on time, you know, within budget, all of that, but if you need a break, take one you know, we are adults. Yeah, so I mean, I am very driven. But if you're a very driven person, sometimes the lesson is learned to lighten up and if you're the person who's on their phone for four hours and only starting to work when it's you know, three minutes before the end of your shift then you need something else. Yeah, no, absolutely. Hubble is awesome as I like to cut it there Gina. Anything you want to plug or push on your way out? Well, if people are interested in learning more about leadership, I have a 50 traits of exceptional leaders download on my site it is it's free. Just go to Gina dilemma. COMM gi n A. D as in David, e L, a PA COMM And just poke around and you will see a pop up when in very short order up on the screen, and it's very simple to download from there. Awesome. So it's just the email for that. Yes, yeah, we don't make you you know, give us your credit card, Social Security thumbprint. zactly and you know, three people who can vouch for you Now none of that. References. Oh, God. I don't know if I could pull that one out. But you could Well, I got you know, I could definitely use you as reference. sonically. Yeah. Okay. Excellent. Great speaking with you, Joshua says you're a good interviewer. And I enjoyed the conversation and I hope people listening out there will get a lot of trust, hoping and trusting to get great value from our conversation. Thank you, Jean. I appreciate that. And I appreciate you too. I appreciate you. So yeah, doing the doing the podcast is a huge labor of love. I get to be the unlucky guest to show up and smile and interact. But you're, you're doing all the heavy lifting. So kudos to you. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, it is. It really is.