Copy Writing and the Creator Economy | Margo White Part 2

   This is a three-part series of a two-hour interview with Margo White. 
   We talked about copy the creator economy, social media growth for entrepreneurs and standing your ground, and having your own opinion.





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Transcript

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Okay, you go first. Thank you, Margo. Thank you all for coming on. Whoa, they're just wearing my mic. How? So? Margo. Tell me what you do. And how did you find this show? Well, Josh, first of all we met on match maker.fm. That's first. And secondly, I listened to all mostly most of your episodes. And I was really impressed by your energy and your species that you give, I thought that it would be nice to get in touch and have this friendly conversation on your show. The Josh Bolton show, listen, guys, listen to all the episodes, you will find the value here. Thank you, Margo. Thank you very much for that. So you were telling me before I hit the record button, that you're a copywriter? How does that work? Exactly? Well, I'm not kidding. I'm not quite copywriter, I used to do this stuff. But now I'm number one expert in copywriting for entrepreneurs. So I consult intrapreneurs to do their homework before they write the copy or outsource that. Because people think that all you need to do for your business is just sit down and write a copy. And since it's free to share, like, it's free to send an email, right, it's free to share a social media post. So what they do is, they don't pay close attention to everything they share. They can, you know, they don't have consistency. They don't have strategy. They don't ask themselves the right, right question. They don't wonder who their audience is. And what we get as a result. And you Josh can agree with me, when you scroll your social media every morning, there are lots of mixed messages, and most of them are similar. So there's kind of, you know, nothing grabs your attention anymore, because there are same things said by different people. And it's like copy, paste, all of it, nothing creates this, you know, bounding experience with you as a reader. So what I tried to do, and I do this pretty well with corporate clients and fortune 500 companies is I make intrapreneurs do their homework, by describing themselves, their business and their audience before the first word goes out on behalf of that company. Okay. So, we you were mentioning to me earlier about the customer avatar? Can you tell me the basic premise of that? I love that question. And actually customer avatar, I can do the whole show around that I can do the whole I mean, for the past four years, all I've been doing is studying customer avatars and developing the new form of it. Now let's start from what people think the customer avatar is, if you Google it, the first thing that comes out what you need to know about your customer avatar is their age, do they drive a car, how many keys they have, where they work, and etc, etc. Okay, so I kind of agree on the fact that it should be described for your business, but there's so much more beyond that, this data can cannot be used to create content, this data cannot be used to create an email that drives action. Okay, just because your customer avatar, if you know that your customer avatar is 35 year old person. You know, if you go with this information to any copywriter, he will go okay. So what next? Right? So you're not stating anything but the general data, I went way beyond that. And in terms of customer avatar, I started with the companies itself, because we attract like minded people always. So you start not with your audience. But you start with yourself and studying yourself first. And that's where your customer avatar starts shaping. And let me give you the gist, the wrote of that roadmap, is you first start with what are your beliefs about your industry? What are your beliefs about life in general? So you ask yourself these questions and there is a whole list of questions that you need to ask yourself and then it Starts shaping the people that you are able to work with. Okay, so when you shaped yourself, and we can go, we can dive deeper into this, but I just want to give a broad picture. When you shaped yourself, you start asking, what is the type of person I never want to see in my business? You know why? Because it's much easier to describe the ante avatar than to describe the avatar. Okay, so you start listing the qualities and you know, basic data of the person you don't want to do business with. And then you, once again, it's slowly but surely start shaping your audience because you kind of notice, you kind of write down all the qualities that you don't want for your business. And then out of those qualities, you've figured out what you want for your business. Okay. So, have you ever done that, Josh? No, I'm literally writing it down as we speak. I was wondering if you, if you ever turned down the client. They paid you but you just didn't like them? You know, actually, I used to teach martial arts with one of my guests I mentioned earlier. And actually one of the things the client was willing to pay 500 a month to me. Hmm. But honestly, the person, I just I finally had to give him back the money like, I can't do this, like you're, you're impossible to work with. You know, that people start respecting you, when you start saying no, I recently had this interesting thoughts, that if you as a person, you know, work with CEOs, CFOs, or, you know, leaders, that you should know that these people get to where they are right now, not just by saying yes to every opportunity, but by saying no to things that they find unacceptable for them. So when you as a business, have very strict criteria for what you want and what you don't want in your business. That's when you start. They start seeing value in you. That means that you appreciate yourself, and it's kind of intrigue as well, because everyone around is is running, like give me your money. If you have money. That's the only criteria. Can you afford this? That's it. And corn stopped feeling special. It all went down to dollars. When out of this crowd, there is a business, there comes a business that says, Okay, these are the people I'm helping, and these are the people I can't help. Okay, I don't want to, right. So that's when your value raises, and it should be actually reflected in your content as well, because we're going to talk about content, right? So it should be reflected in your content, saying that, you know, what, I refuse to work with that person. And if you are, I'm just, you know, talking briefly, but if you are this kind of person, I don't want you in my business. But if you're this, this, this, this this kind of person I can help you. Right, you know, yeah. So, anti avatar is very important. It's really, really important for your business, because it's, you know, it attracts respect. And then there is a, you know, three states of the customer avatar, which I personally developed, it's in our minimum, I also Yeah, I also down as you write and I hope for your audience too. So inner minimum in our breakdown and in our maximum. Now. The information the basic information about your customer avatar does not give anything in terms of content, okay, it will not give your copywriter enough information on what what should he or she write about how to develop content strategy and etc, etc. But this three states like inner minimum and inner breakdown and inner maximum, will give a brief understanding of the world that your customer avatar is living in. It's, well actually what we can see online is oftentimes is unrealistic. promises that actually, you know, like buy this course for$97 and you will become a millionaire. That there is a, then there is a disclaimer like, okay, the creator of the course does not take any responsibility for your income and blah, blah, blah. Right, right, right. you've, you've seen that aloud, right? It's actually the funny part when my co workers, they all are scrolling on Instagram, and like, these people are so happy. And then it's so great. Well, why Can I have it? I'm like, you know, I'll bet you 10 bucks right now. Cash there, just as miserable as you, but they're really good at Photoshop. So that's pretty, pretty much true for for many people. And I believe that. Actually, there is a lot of value in lots of courses. But the thing is that most people are not ready to change and in their mind. There's I mean, maybe they're buying this course. Did you know that 97% of people don't even finish the course that they bought. Yeah. I completely agree with that. It's insane. The amount of non completes for classes in general? Yeah, I think it's just millions and millions of dollars every day, our Fletch just because people are buying they're, they're buyers, but they're not doers. Right. Right. So once again, if you're working with the, with that kind of product, I'm sorry, but this is my criteria. I cannot help this kind of people who bought this product. I'm sorry, that's not my area. I working with coaches and really millionaires who, you know, whose programs drive action and they cost 2k and higher. Oh, 2000s. Nice that one of the guys that had on Vinnie Vinnie Chopra, he was minimum for apartment syndication is 20,000. Yeah, I mean, you know what, I think that it's better to charge people 20,000 and bring them results, then charge them 97 bucks. And don't bring them anything. I really I truly believe so. And he's even said he's like, long after you pass it. He's like you, you have unlimited access to my email, if you have any questions, or any suggestions on investors for your apartment syndication kind of thing. So just sitting there going like 20k, for something that could potentially be hundreds of millions of dollars. That's just pennies kind of thing? Absolutely. Absolutely. If the person delivers the value, and he or she coordinates, you know, people who are passing this course and masterminds. That's why I have, I am a big believer in masterminds, because masterminds is where you are seen, unless that's mastermind for 200 people, which is not, you know, it's it shouldn't be that way. masterminds should be up to 20 people, and you should communicate with the, with the horse directly. Right. So. So going back to the three states, when we're talking about high ticket products, and especially financial products, we should know that people who are ready to spend 2k 5k 20k they have this bs filter, and the same strategy will not work with them and for them, and I love it. Because you can promise a person that he will become a millionaire. Okay, if he is not. But at the same time, these three states when you describe them closely, they show how how the success, the progress of success looks realistically in their mind, because we all hope for the best. We are all afraid of the worst. And the state that we're in right now unless we want to change something is our inner minimum. So we're okay with where we are. Okay, right. So, that actually brings me to description of what each state is, in our minimum is once again, the state that you your comfort zone. Okay? Most people say it's your comfort zone. I go way beyond that, but let's call it comfort zone on this show. Okay, okay, because it takes a lot of time. And so you don't mean it is Is the zero point now what you're promising to your prospects should be in our maximum. But it shouldn't be more than five eggs of his in our minimum because our mind does not find realistic those, you know, as much as I appreciate grant Cardon botanics think, yes, I listened to like, five chapters and a certain point, I'm like, okay, I that definitely is good for some people. But that is not doable for anyone else. No, right, you know, that. I'm more results driven. And although I passed all of this courses, because I had to, you know, I can tell you that most people are just listening to that and doing nothing, because otherwise we would have millionaires walking down the street, and you know, not not only Hollywood Boulevard, right? All right. So the thing is that people get this pill, that's, you know, motivation pill, as I call it, that's instant motivation, but then their bs factor and their mind starts actually questioning this whole thing. Like, you're not able to do that, you're not able to, you know, reach the stars. And that happens because of unrealistic promises. And that is exactly why most programs are started but not finished. You know, because because Bs, filter it, you can't change your mind. So what I figured, over the years and years of working in this sphere is 5x is a comfort, you know, multiplication of your results. So if you were making For example, 40k right now, if I come to you, and I say that you're going to make 200k a year. If you follow step by step, and be consistent in your actions, your mind will pass this result through the BS filter. If you're making 40k a year. Okay, I'm sorry, I was talking about the years. Okay. So, if you're making 40k a year, and I'm coming to you, and I'm telling you, you're going to have like 2 million a year, next year, um, you know, there is a difficulty that your mind will find it difficult to believe. So you will better act on 200k. Then on 2 million, although it's it's not, you know, it's the kind of beyond logic, right, you should have been motivated for 2 million more than 200k. But that's not how our minds work. Yeah. Yeah, I, I've been reading books like Thinking Fast and Slow. And that is exactly what you're explaining is system one, system two for him. It is the BS filter system to merely tell your emotions like, Don't get your hopes up kind of thing. Yeah, absolutely. And that's what we're trying to break in here. Because it's not just about the courses and coaches, it's about the financial world, also. So when people when you try starting to change people's behavior through your content, you have to really dive deep into their minds and figure out what is the what is about these three states, that you can actually catch their attention and move there and actually change their behavior. And in our maximum, I'm sorry, this is in our maximum and in our breakdown, on the other side is the state that you're bringing them in, which should happen if nothing changes, okay? So this should be minus 5x. Okay. It's very consistent formula. So it's, for inner maximum, you have plus 5x. For inner breakdown, you have minus 5x. And that's how this whole thing goes, that you are describing them because if you will tell a person that you know what, if you don't change your life, you're going to be miserable for the entire, you know, whatever. Every person, you know, will bring an example of someone who is living, you know, stable, normal life and is totally happy. I can bring lots of examples of people who don't make it A lot of money, but they're much more much, much happier than those who make millions and millions of dollars. So that, you know, threat from the coaches saying that, okay, you're not going to be happy if you don't make millions of dollars as kind of not going to work. But on the other side, this minus 5x, in our breakdown, explains to the person that if he doesn't develop, he just does not unleash his potential. That's pretty much it. It's not about being unhappy, it's not about being miserable, is just about the thing that you have to do for yourself or for for for the people that you love. And you're just not doing it. And once again, you're very soft in your predictions, I can enter maximum. So these are three states that we developed for our customer avatar, and they're part of your content strategy. And as you probably noticed, a Josh that all these three, three things that I described right now, I are totally connected to you. So when I developed this thing called content DNA, I actually created kind of a structure for the content that is so individual, that is practically, it's very difficult to copy by your competitors, it's very difficult to copy because they're not going to copy your story. Unless this is totally ever key. Right? They're not going to become you. And since it all comes from you, you then your customer avatar, then their inner states, and then your content strategy. So this creates an unique message in your content that cannot be repeated. So that's basically the roadmap of everything that we do here. That's just that's so powerful in and of itself. Yeah. The way you said actually, earlier that people don't respect to people respect more those who say no, that that's what I've recently with all the stuff I've been with interviewing, I realized some of the people I've just had to tell him like, no, and actually, we're still in contact, like, they're actually like, Hey, I respect you for actually standing up for yourself. That like stuck out the most. Now the your comment on yours perspective is what you expect from your minimum and maximum. And the comfort zone itself. That is actually the biggest thing I've noticed, just in general, not even like my recent job, just in general of talking to people, because some of them I'm like, Why? Why do you work for this dead end job who only treat you like a number now? You truly have no existence here. You're just a husk of yourself. Why do you do this? And they're like, Oh, we don't know what freedom is? And why and I'm like, but then why don't you go find what is your like, your happiness, your freedom, and they'd like us to hard that's work. I just want to work here. Go home, watch Netflix, get drunk, come back to work. I'm like, why that is not a life. Well, you know how drug addicts don't now that they're addicted, although everyone else does. And so alcoholics, there's the same thing you never know. Because you always say that, hey, this is nothing. I'm just partying and stuff. I I've seen a person who drank a bottle of wine every single day, and he did not consider himself an alcoholic. So, oh, I hear the docs. Yes. Here they are. So what I'm trying to say is these people don't don't consider that as a problem enough. And you can see a lot you can hear a lot of stories of the successful coaches and motivational speakers when they had this inner breakdown, as I call it, so, you know, saw all fears when they lost everything. Everything slept in the car, I don't know, did a lot, lots of lots of, you know, lots of things happen to them. So, it was a state, which I would call it couldn't be worse, and so they raised okay. So the people that you described right now, they are in their comfort zone. They're not going to change because it's not bad enough. Yeah, and they don't know It's bad enough. Yeah, it's bad enough for you. For you. It's Yeah. actually touching on your comment. So the other apartment guy I had on his name's Batson I probably just butchered his name again. He was essentially saying like, have you noticed immigrants work harder than the actually the Americans born here, Mike? Yeah. Because they have nothing to lose everything to gain for those who live lives in the system, and like America is actually great. Even the cool poor homeless? Were they're taking very well care of, kind of thing. Yeah, yes, it's a shitty situation they're in. But like, ultimately, you know, you can go find a food free from like a church or something, and you won't starve to death. Said, so for us in the current system. Actually, if we try to do with the people, the immigrants coming in doing, we have everything to lose. And we feel like we have nothing to gain kind of thing. Right here. So true. said, you know, this comfort zone, this exactly. I read numerous, numerous books on this topic. And if you know, this experiment that was done, I think over a decade ago, which is universe 25, with a rat, they placed two to four rats in a closed environment. And what they did is they they provided them with the food and water and everything that the Reds needed, so they didn't need to hunt, they didn't need to do anything. So what happened over time is the red started to you know, procrastinate. All right, procrastination. Interesting. Yeah, they first day, you know, increased in number, of course, there were 600 rats, but once they reach this number, they here or here K appeared. Okay, there were rats that were not hunting anymore, even for food. Other were other ones, brought them food, there were rats who stopped doing everything who even cannibalism, you know, developed there. So the point is this on the 14th day, the last rat died out of 600. And the the experiment is called the universe 25. Because it was done for 25 times. And it always ended the same way. Interesting, you know, read about that. Universe 25. It's, it was series of experiments I just described one. And the point is this, that we need this, you know, three states. throughout our lives, we need the pressure. We need to hunt, we need to be happy. And we need to also sometimes to rest. But most people, the ones that you described right now, they're sleeping, and they will sleep throughout their lives unless something really bad happens to them. When they figure that it's can't be worse and they start racing. Yeah, well, I mean, back in March, this is what sparked like, sparked everything. For me. It was the market crash. And I'm watching the YouTube live feed. Everyone's like, this is the end of capitalism as we know it. But then there's people in the chat going hell yes, is the best thing I've ever seen. Okay, why are some people crying and some Nye kind of thing? So then there was the whole psychology of trading psychology business, I realized in general, just psychology is what I actually need to focus on. The rest will fill in later. And it was even your comment, like a catastrophic event. One of my supervisors who's been working with this company for like, I think he said, 30 ish years might be more. His whole 401k was wiped out. Oh, my God, he wasn't worried. He's like, I'll just work longer. I'm like, No, like, you got to be smart about your assets kind of thing. He's like, I don't know this. I was never taught it so I don't care. That's when he hit me. I'm like, there are truly some people you can never like connect with, you can never actually help their perspective kind of thing. Actually, I'm a true believer that no one helps anyone. Unless the person is ready. You know, the same things. There's a no pay. There's a no information, actually, that you cannot find for free. In Google or in books. There's no formation to become anyone, any person you want. Want to become millionaire, it's there wanting to become a billionaire. He's there. You know, the problem is what is going on in our heads because we're not allowing ourselves to do that. Right? No, it's very true. And I've, I've recently with psychology I've accepted like, there will be certain periods of my life, it will be very boring and very bland. Like accounting work. It's like, it's, it's let me allow my freedom. But ultimately, there will be also very interesting, but everyone I've talked to is just like, we want to flash in the pan. That's it. And it's like, well, no, that's not how life works. The easiest as it is. Well, you know what? I'm a true believer, we actually moved a little bit off the topic, right? I think that it's, it's, I think that what we're talking about right now is very important in terms of content as well, because the listeners will be able to understand the psychology and mindset of the people that are buying from them. There is a there is a scientist called jarred dispenza. Okay, you probably heard of him, and he made series of what? You said something or you didn't know I did, sorry. Okay. So Joe dispenza made series of experiments, I think, several 100. And he found out that we have approximately 65,000 thoughts every day. And 95% of those thoughts are similar to what we had yesterday. So we're thinking the same stuff. And when you, for example, as a company, I will go back to the topic for a bit and then move on to incorporate that because I do want to get back to the avatar, too. Yeah, I'm talking about the avatar right now. So when you're writing a content about your, to your customer avatar, you are proposing to him the new model of behavior, okay, using your product or service. But at the same time, you should know that the new model is really really difficult to for him to absorb, he can only absorb 5%, new of new thoughts. 95% is the old thing. So what you need to do to grab their attention is to give them every one of their thoughts at this very moment. So imagine that you're thinking about something? I don't know, you're thinking about your dog? And yeah, I do that a lot. You know, I think about my dogs about know what, what to do with them, how is their future? And, you know, as I love to say, I'm working hard, so my dogs would have a better life? Yes. So imagine you're, you're thinking about your dog, and suddenly someone, you know, publishes this post saying the same thing that you're thinking about, about his dogs, or just, you know, generally without offering you something, you figure that you have the same thoughts about the topic. Okay, so, right, like we're talking right now, but everything in terms of content. So at this very moment, you actually because he said, he or she said, you exactly what you were thinking about. So that's when you start paying attention. And all that, you know, promises and all that, you know, new trying trying to apply new product or service to your life. This sounds like a noise to you, because your mind rejects it. Until it, you see it so many times in your feet, and they paid so much. So much money for you to see it, that you start accepting that information. But that, you know, that means you have to have millions of dollars in terms of ads, and I'm not kidding. It's really mean. It's insane. Yeah. And I can tell you that millions of dollars every day I wash or wash down the toilet of Facebook ads or Google Ads who never brought a mean never brought the message that needs to be seen. So when companies start thinking about that Thinking about the thoughts that their prospects are thinking right now. And sharing those thoughts. They move from their narcissistic approach, which, by the way, I used to say that most of your competitors are not narcissistic companies. So they move from narcissistic approach telling their story and blah, blah, blah, which no one cares to talking to their prospects and actually, you know, showing that they're relevant to them because they share the same thoughts. Absolutely. That's literally what I've been picking up on this whole journey for the last three ish months, is, it's just that it's you don't, don't tell your story. If they want to hear it, they'll eventually they'll either look it out, like look for it, or they'll actually ask you otherwise focused on your customer. And that's exactly how many I have yet to sign a start my morning. And I bet you too, without someone telling his story, my email, I thought this, this happened to me 25 years ago, this was in my childhood. And I'm like, Okay, fine. I love reading stories. But how is this relevant? You know, yeah. Yeah, go ahead. Sorry, I was reading my mouth, Mike with the dogs barking. That's fine. Anything that your listeners don't want or don't mind that. So I think that, you know, this narcissistic approach, it develops just because these messages, most of them are shared for free. There is social media messages, email, and so on and so forth. And people try things in a wrong way. I'm not against trying. I bet you said the same thing. Basically, I remember. It was something like that you think about something during the day, and then during the night, it's like coding and Oh, yeah. Yeah, I so my how my mind works is how I can bypass to 95%. If I force feed stuff, even if it's uncomfortable, it'll stick. But not many people are willing to force feed it. But the problem is there's so much data, and my mind is like an engineer and wants to compartmentalize everything. So when I'm sleeping, I'm not sleeping about me flying with pigs kind of thing. It's it's numbers compartmentalizing, like blockchain. And it's super boring. Usually there's no visuals. And I wake up like, Oh, yeah, that was it. Okay, keep going. All right. That's the I think that's the healthiest way to do that with you to do things with your sleeping because you're conscious. That's, that's what I can tell you. And most people are unconscious, and they only care about themselves. The same goes in terms of companies. They don't care who buy the advice their product. Most of companies don't do that. So going back to the point of the customer avatar, you should test things, okay, but test them in the right direction. You cannot treat your prospects email box, as I don't know, as the trash can, or something that he will throw anything in there. Something will come out. No, you can't do that. It shows disrespect people right now. In the modern days, they are so protective of their email boxes. They're so protected, so protective, that they're not even giving their primary email. Each and every one of us has the spam email. Yes, it's the L venchi. Check it like once a month email kind of thing. But usually it's just terrible, spammy ads. Exactly. So we have, we have just one spam email when we want to download some lead magnet or anything else or just for a free trial. So we think that it's not worth and we don't know who the person is. Now, the most challenging thing for many companies is to get out of that spam email into his primary email, because most of the time, so we find the company really valuable and the message really, you know, reflects with us, we just register with our main emails. Yeah. And so this is the most challenging thing. But the problem is that many companies, most companies, it's very difficult It's very easy to stand out from this crowd. If you are thinking about your customer Avatar and it's very difficult to stand out from this crowd, if you are only talking about themselves, about yourself and your business. Okay, right. So as as I think it was Dickens who said, it was the best of times, it was the worst of times, I would say that about doing business nowadays, it's the best of times, because it's very easy. It has not been easier ever. We're living 2021 it's very easy everything is drag and drop. You can build your website, within hours, minutes, I had my website up in literally 10 minutes, but I just didn't know how to use Wix. So I hired a guy for 100 bucks to do it. Literally under like two hours, I had a website, and everything going, you see and sell Do you know, so do people out there, it's very easy to do that everything is drag and drop. I it was funny, I was organizing some webinar, I set it up in like 30 minutes, I organized the webinars 12 years ago, it took us two months. I'm telling you, and in essence, people were not using internet that much. We were actually sharing flyers and giving fires in the streets and collecting people's information, you know, emails directly, and people were not checking their emails that much and blah, blah, blah, you know, right. But now it's done within 30 minutes with toukas doing too much. So the entry barrier is really, really well. But your content matters like never before? Absolutely. Like never, you will not be able to create a website that cannot be copied. But you can establish this deep, deep connection with your customer avatars and your prospect that no one can break. Okay. So that's why it matters what you say and what you don't say as well. Yes, no, it really does. Like I had a it was interesting. I had a few guests on no gray, and I think their shows already aired what it was one of those I always extended to anyone who does podcasting is like, Hey, you came on my show, I'll scratch like you scratch my back, I scratch yours. It's completely fair. And although my Oh no, we don't believe in your view of everything. We like your show, but we don't like Believe in your view and why? Well, just so you know, your your quote unquote brand is associated with me whether you like it or not. That's interesting. Could you describe your view? Um, I think it's the more financially conservative but liberal thinking. Like, like the I believe, ultimately, that the government doesn't have to fix everything. It's the as if we just educate the people more like I've actually had this conversation with someone, because they I have my whole fundamental analysis book I read at work. Do you think it's actually like? Like, do you think the markets big enough to feed everyone? I'm like, the markets so big. If everyone just knew the basis of fundamental analysis, we'd all be very successful. And we really never have to worry about money again. I said, So yes, I believe education is the key, but it's like, but the government giving it to us is not necessarily they have a bias and why they want us dependent on the tip of the government. So I wish that people would just read this small book I'm actually looking at right now is Benjamin Graham, which is the interpretation of financial statements. This is my book, you know, yeah, this is a small book of I don't know, it's probably like 60 or 70 pages. And it gives you answers to everything. But most people don't even want to do this. So what's his name? What's the title? I know the name of the? Yeah, the interpretation of financial statements. Sorry, I write really, really well. Actually, if you read his Intelligent Investor, he quotes that, that book of his the interpreters, I'm sorry, misspelled the interpretation of financial statements. You know that Benjamin Graham was the mentor of Warren Buffett, right? Yes, yeah. And I, as my next book, I'm reading the Gulag archipelago the abridged one Apparently the actual original Capello was 1000 pages. So this bridge one's only 1800. And I'm like, that's easy. That's like about two weeks of listening for me, compared to like, two months, but that's the next one. I'm gonna buy the actual audio book and listen to it while I'm at work. Wow, yeah. Awesome. I like reading and listening, because that's how you're the information, you know, stores better. So yeah, listening to books is really, really good. I want to make command on what you just said, I believe that. Yeah, there's a lot of things going on in this world, which I would say is totally unacceptable. And but at the same time, I totally agree with with you that people should take charge of their lives. The problem with most people is they want to muster, they want someone to tell them what to do. Yes, yeah. So they can't function on their own, they cannot make decisions on their own, because they're afraid that they will have to respond to that they will have to take Reno actually reflect to that. But the thing is, that they still do, they still take responsibility for someone else's action. You know, years ago, I lost my business for the consequences that did not depend on me, it was the, you know, issue with, with closing branches, and regulatory changes, and blah, blah, blah, things that I would actually say that, you know, it's regulatory stuff, I didn't make that decision. But at the same time, um, I started working for someone else. And that made me very miserable. I thought that I didn't have any chance, and any, you know, whatever, to open a business. And I worked for them, the money was good. Actually, it was, it was very difficult for me to get out of that zone. But once one day, I got sick. I'm not. I'm not kidding, I got really sick, I had a terrible headache. And I didn't go on line for that company, you know, to talk to them and stuff like that, to do the work on time. And they kind of close this project for me for one day. So I figured that this comfort zone without taking responsibility. And without being, you know, the manager and stuff is much riskier than actually managing your own business. My business did not close in one day. No. So people who think that they have no choice, they actually are risking much more than the business owners. Because, you know, there's a very slight chance for business to close in one day, but there's a huge chance to be fired in one day. So yes, no, that's one thing. I joke with my co workers currently. Because they know I'm doing this podcast they've even outright told me like, we're not gonna listen to your show, though. Mike, that's fine. You're not my audience anyways. Well, that's supportive all day, or, Hey, your toxicity in Karna is insane. Oh, my God, if my if my friends are, oh, these are your coworkers, not friends. My friends would refuse to listen to my podcast. They're not my friends anymore. And my one buddy, he, he listened, I sent him one of a guy attempting to run for president. And he's like, yeah, you were super nice. But he's like, he was a bumbling idiot. He ran into the wall. And you were telling him not to do that kind of thing. He's like, but he's like, I'm not gonna listen to others because he's like, your, the way you approach thing is very complicated. It's too much for me, like, that's fine. That I totally understand. I just want you to listen to that one guy. Once again, going back to criteria, you should not fit any the criteria of any person that listens to you. For one reason, because many, many people try to please everyone, everybody, and they end up pleasing nobody. Yes. If you're strong in your position, you will create the bonding experience between those people, between you and those people who share your ideas. And you should not be afraid of sharing them whatever they are, unless they violate the rules and blah, blah, blah and all the stuff you know, but sharing it's a free country. Were actually we can love or not like, anyone we want for the reasons. Sometimes we explain them, sometimes we don't have to explain them. That's pretty much it. And there will be always for this kind of people, there will be always those who love you, and those who hate you. But if you're not sharing your ideas, if you're you know, both here and there, and everywhere and nowhere, people will just not even remember you. That's pretty much it. You want to be average. everage is faceless. It's faceless. You don't remember the faceless person? No, no. No. Actually, it's one thing I've always noticed about myself. So for the podcast, I put a very proper a suit and tie like, facade is not but like in general, what I'm working with people when I'm actually helping, I kind of go like Tony, not Tony Robbins since Robin Williams where I go around, I make funny jokes, I make funny faces and gestures to make them happy. And they've many people have told me afterwards like your one corny, really bad pun, actually, like really helped me out that whole day kind of thing. Like awesome. That is literally the whole point to make you just laugh because we as adults, really don't remember how to laugh anymore. Oh my god. That's so true. That's one of the things why people should have dogs because they laugh at least twice a day. It is very true. Yeah. Yeah, people don't love anymore. You know, I think that with all the possibilities when when people didn't have possibilities, they were much more motivated. When the government was actually blocking people from achieving good is yes. And now you can become this anything you want. And you don't even need to leave your house anymore. For that you can do everything online, you want to become a dynamo, the Japanese teacher, no problem do that. You want to learn coding, learn coding everything in the comfort of your own home. But at the same time, people don't want to do anything. So it's what I told you. It's the best times and the worst times. Truly Yes. So I actually want to go into something because of your your insight on audience. avatars. So that's, that's actually a main reason why I wanted you to come on to to help me clarify this and help your audience too. So like I was telling you off the air, like I know my audience, generally entrepreneurial mindset and open minded thinkers. But I don't know how to let's say, I wanted to go to a popcorn advertising and just pitch to Bragg's, as I could say, this is my audience. But I don't know, because I'm sort of small. But also, I just don't know who I'm talking to. So how would I define my avatar? To say, let's, I'm pitching to sprouts, like, hey, my show on these, this my audience, I guarantee at least like 30% are going to actually take action? That's an awesome question, Josh, you need when you are a startup business, or you have a small audience, and you don't have a rich, to identify them. Before you you know, create your Facebook group where you can already you know, ask people to join and you figure out who they are, you should identify yourself and draw the person that you want to attract with his or her thoughts and share this thoughts consistently. Because this statements once again, going back to criteria going back to your strong points, you need to be very, very strict about your points. For example, I go out I say, I don't like Tommy Robinson, what he does. I'm, I'm okay with saying that. I don't mean that he doesn't, doesn't impact people while they're in the audience, because I was impacted by that as well. But once you go out from there, well, you know what, there's a very small percentage of people who actually take action. So I believe that this this is, again, kind of a pill or a drug that you're taking, and then in two hours, it's gone. And you need another one in another one every day. And that's why Tony is so popular and so wealthy because people keep buying from him every single time because they're back for more because it's not enough. So actually, I'd like to end reject there. I've one of the few, a couple of guests. We talked about Gary Vaynerchuk. And I said, he knows exactly who his audiences. Yeah, he's the guy that hype them up. They have no will to do anything. So when they crash the media come back to him. Yeah, I'm like, Yes, he has the good intentions of helping the entrepreneurial mindset and all that. But yeah, I mean, I'm not questioning intentions of these people. I'm more than, you know. I'm more than sure they want to help. But there's a question if you're doing something for 20 years, and you see the results, right. And you see that it's not the, you know, it's not bringing actually, you know, to to anything for masses. So change the things but he, you know, keeps issuing this massive programs. I don't mean, Gary, I mean, Tony, Gary doesn't have any pro he used to have he does seminars. Oh, right. That's predominantly his video content is to his seminars. That's why they always look so choppy and not well. That's, that's very true. So you need to state you need to list the strong points that you believe in, and that you don't believe in, and you should state that you know, openly, because those ideas will attract people. And you should if you don't have your audience, listed somewhere on social media or somewhere else, you should really work with your titles and the hashtags and stuff like that. Yes. Because once again, when you create the strong list of your own thoughts, you will attract like minded people who think the same way. As you absolutely know that that is what I've actually your touch on the title. So for my first like, month and a half, I had interview with insert name. That's all I had. And I thought it was good enough kind of thing. And it was just one of those was a comment from an older herb shop lady. She has like alternative medicine. And she's like, Oh, I want to listen, I want to support you. She picks up one and it's like, What is this about though? I can't tell you. It's just Who's this? Who's this Eric person on and I said just like offhandedly. Joseph has said if I just put like EFT, slash whatever, then the Eric who have, she's like, Yeah, I would totally understand. And I've noticed it pick up instantly, because I'm like, Oh, I'm just thinking of me because I listened to more boring stuff so that everything's cut and paste. My oh, this is how everyone interfaces with the podcast. And I'm like, Oh, wait, no, I'm that weird one. So I'm the one. I'm trying to target myself. But that doesn't work kind of thing. Yeah, just think about this, the that way that every time you you know, issue a piece of content, it should be so clear that the person who's reading about it, or looking at it will decide within three seconds whether he's going to proceed or not. They're not investing more time. And what you're doing with the titles. For example, if the title is not clear, Oh, I love this. I once said that. If you're if you're a reader, if, when reading or when doing something, you're bored, then your reader is asleep. So just treat your audience time as investment that they're making. You wouldn't ask people to invest $1,000 with lousy content, right? So what the reason why you had this conversation with you with that lady is because she also treats her time as investment. Although she's not paying anything for for listening to this podcast, or reading the email or doing this and that, but at the same time, she treats her time as an investment, not because her time is so valuable, and blah, blah, blah, because there's so much content out there, that she could invest this time in reading other people's content and you know, taking this benefit or whatever it is. For example, if I am listening to the podcast, or you know, or a show or anything, and I'm not taking at least one idea, I think that I feel like I was robbed. Someone took like an hour of my time and i and i hope that the listeners of this podcast just took several great ideas and this is a great investment of your time. So even if I'm walking with my dogs, which I don't listen to music, I'm walking with my dogs and, you know, listening to podcast, although I was not doing anything at that time, I couldn't work at that time. But I could have listened to some more valuable podcasts or, you know, some more valuable information. And I could get so disturbed at that time. And so does every audience that you see out there. So the messages should be very clear and valuable. And the title should be reflecting the biggest intrigue in the episode, the biggest one, and never reveal the essence of the of the episode in the title. Never. Because there will be no intrigue. For example, people who listen to the end, are now getting this awesome insights that the beginners didn't get. You say? Yeah, if we would, you know, drop everything from the very beginning, it would make no sense. No, that's actually a very good point. So I had a silly dream. When I was little more, not bad way, but I was more emotional, and then logical. I was like, Oh, I'm gonna be a YouTuber. I'm gonna play video games, this and that. And it's like, I'll just say whatever the frick I want. The internet has, like, they're gonna love it. And then. But the funny part was, I realized, wait, there's clickbait, what? what how do I? How do I compete with them kind of thing. And this is essentially you just actually give it away, you give the the message of the concept, but you never actually get the content and weight and you have to wait till the end of understand it. Mm hmm. I was thinking of just full on going like Alex Jones, just saying crazy stuff. So people will pay attention to me. And I'm like, wait, there's a much easier route. Yeah, people pay attention to that when, once again, when you have guts to go out and say I don't like this, I like this. And especially when you stayed Why, then, you know, you gain respect from people. Because Because, you know, most of us are dealing on a daily basis with people without opinions. And people without opinions in my, from my perspective, are not, you know, are invisible. You cannot build your personal brand without strong statements. So, you need to be number one in your sphere, otherwise, it makes no sense. Oh, absolutely. And the essence of the content DNA that I created, for example, it's based on the fact that it all comes from your qualities as a you as a person, then you as your business, then your avatar is you. And until avatar, you get it. So it's all connected to you. And if you have a weak personality, nothing will happen there. Because everything is tightened to you. You can choose all the audience you want, you can choose. I know droids as your audience, but at the same time, if you don't find points of connection with them, then it's impossible. I mean, even if you will do the email blasts every day or throw millions of dollars on the ads, they will they will not find connection, you will not understand them, you will not understand how to sell to them. Absolutely no, that's, that's the biggest thing I'm noticing is the moment I got comfortable with. This is my my thing. Predominantly talked about business and mindset philosophy. But again, like also the audience realizes like I do introduce other things like mainly just out of self interest. But also because if I'm interested I figure others roles and shouldn't this topic kind of thing. Yeah, exactly. I mean, you shouldn't be do that show for yourself. And the like minded people will come because we all listen, for example, I'm listening to add mileage Show. I'm a true believer that Ed milot created his show just to get free consultations from people. That he's like, Oh shit. Yeah. Who charged 10s of 1000s of dollars for an hour of their work. I swear I'm a true believer of that. But this show is so he's asking personal questions, the questions like you asked me, for example right now. And I can tell you if you cut the first part of this episode all about this bs about inner minimum and blah, blah, blah, and create the whole episode about how to promote the podcast. That will work actually much better probably than, you know, fitting all the content into one thing, all the, you know, information and all the things. So you could break it down into two. guys literally just so funny. Great morning sigelei. I'm thinking like, this is so much good content, just to send it as is, people are gonna be like, what the hell do we do with this? Most people 99% are never going to act on it. But there will be a 1% of people who will listen, understand those ideas. And I can tell you that it's not just four years of being in this content. So it's like 13 years of my work in financial sphere, working with people be to be very smart CEOs and CFOs. I used to be in a in a financial sphere in the Insurance Brokerage, and we were working with marine and so on and so forth. People are millionaires who have seen every single sales strategy that you can ever think of. But at the same time, I figured how to be like them. And that's exactly what I'm teaching right now. Not not teaching I don't know, teacher, but I'm sharing the ideas that I didn't read anywhere, anywhere. I and i'm i'm reading like two books a week, there's four hours a day I'm reading, and I couldn't find this information anywhere. And I was like, Okay, I'm going to share it now. No, that's actually one thing. So I have my work was awkward, I have to balance between two areas. But the worst of the one area I don't usually go to but I help out. If someone calls off. They know about my investing and trading and podcasts like that was the same want to ask the financial question, if truly everyone knew this, but did we actually get an unfair advantage for all? And that's why I told him like no, like, here's the thing, though, you'll never be able to Google any of this. If you truly want to learn how to run a business, Google will give you an SEO rank of how to start, but then never give you a good one on how to actually run it. The actual shit involved. kind of thing. That's the stuff you have to read books on day now a good one for your show connecting to your activity on the markets. I can tell you that if this show is for intrapreneurs after the years, and this is their opinion, based on numbers, okay? Right. No businessman who is a bad investor, or does not know how to invest holds on to the market more than five years, those all companies go bankrupt. So if you want to be an entrepreneur, you have to learn investing and trading. Because that gives you an opportunity to see things that other people don't see and to predict the financials of your own company. If you want to build a strong company, you need to look at it as intrapreneur first and then as an investor Otherwise, there will be there are numerous cases in history when people who had millions and millions of dollars, they lost everything, they went in depth. And most of them we know stories of recovery, of course, same grand Cardon, for example, that went into 100 million dollars and death and then recovered, but at the same time, there are stories of people who just never recovered. So you need to have this investor mindset, along with intrapreneur mindset. And you will you right now, Josh, while being in the sphere, you're doing your audience disservice that you're not pointing that out, and not making them, you know, trade with you and teach them trading. Yeah. So that's something I've actually been mulling over but it's the I I guess I just need to hear it from someone else. Well, that it is. Yeah. Yeah, it's Wow. Because with your whole analogy of investing and trading, it's kind of the funny thing. Like the other guy, he started just to get $10,000 consultation free. I started this initially as what would like 18 year old Josh who had a nice mowing empire of like, 600 a week really is like fine. He was actually smart enough to listen to this. What would he want to hear? You're kind of thinking now I've realized it's growing in a more, but that was my whole intent. And I'm starting to realize like, yeah, I actually am. I'm not helping them by not clarifying This is my intent for this show kind of thing, or the show in general. Right? Yeah, I mean, this investor mindset, actually, is the quickest way to break the barrier of this mental barrier that people have in terms of, well, if they come from the poor family, for example, and they spend all the money they earn. This is the first actually reason why people never open the business never have savings never do something significant with their lives, because they spend every single penny they earn. And how many stories have you heard about people who started earning more but still went in depth? I mean, I had a question, okay, you had 40k a year, now you're having 100, and you're in more debt than you were before. So that's that, that is changed only by investor investment mindset, you need to take your 10k and go on the market. It's not a theoretical, theoretical, you can never change anything, theoretically, I have my money on the market. And before I had it, because I was from the poor family. And we actually had, we actually were struggling while growing up while I was growing up. And I had this mindset that whatever I was making, I just spend it. I have numerous Lv bags, I have numerous Freek, for the bag, so on, and so on, and so forth. But at the age of 25, I figured I don't have any savings and anything. That's why that's when I took some money and went on the market. And only practice not theory, right? actually got me from there. No, that's actually a very similar story for me, when we were well off, but it was, my parents, most of their work was just going for rent, so we had to eat cheaper foods that maybe would have been considered the best quality nowadays. I mean, I blame them nothing. They made the work kind of thing. But the same thing, they didn't explain to me the consequences of a credit card at a younger age. So at 21, I got my first credit card, I blew through that. I didn't, I would pay it off completely, but then I blow through it all again. And then I think around 25 ish, it realized why the hell do I keep doing this? All I'm really doing is working to pay off debt kind of thing. And that's, that's when it clicked to me. Like maybe, maybe I do need to live quote, simpler. And yeah, it's spiraled from there. So it's not about just living simpler. It's about the fact that once again, mindset Okay, this I love how there are people who are saving like 10% of what they make whatever they make. I mean, it's it can be million dollar amounts, it can be 10,000 a month or 1000 a month doesn't matter. There are people who will always save 10% whatever the amount is, and they will never make excuses where I'm not making enough money. That's fine. No. This is a habit. Why I love Gary Keller's The one thing book is because he says that the habit and consistency is the only thing that determines successful people from unsuccessful the habit is developed over 66 days on average. 36 Okay, yeah, they say 21. But But this is not true. Gary Keller explains why. Okay. So you have to do it essentially, like two months to actually make it a thing. Yeah, but you need to have, you need to do that every day. Right? I mean, just just just, you know, ever and then continue, of course, because after two months, it will be just kind of a habit for you already. So what Gary said in his book, The one thing is that successful people, usually these people think that successful people, they just have all this energy and do the right things, while in fact, they just have a set of habits like brushing the teeth, and it's on the same level as brushing the teeth that they don't even analyze that they don't think about it. They automatically do that and that's why they succeed. So they turn the right things in their life into habit. And they're not Just doing the right thing just it's just a habit. Like running every day. It's a habit. bad day. Good day, snow, rain doesn't matter. You're going to brush your teeth in snow or snow. Right, right. Same thing goes in terms of habits that they adapt. I mean, I'm not for morning running, don't get me wrong. You feel like running, you can go for that one. And then I mean, it was just an example for someone probably not for me. I don't I don't believe I want one more thing statement. I don't believe that morning running is healthy. Running itself. I the actual just the normal jog, kind of like just plugging away. Like a long country. I I thoroughly believe in if I don't know which articles to say, but essentially doesn't do anything. We were built for sprinting. Yeah, fast movements to get away kind of thing. Thank you exactly, as well. And I can tell you that my own opinion also is not based on some, you know, some dream or something. Now, I ran myself for several years. That's one. And secondly, I read lots of studies about that. The problem with people nowadays is they don't question stuff. They're taught to do something and they're doing it. That's pretty much it. They're not questioning stuff. They're not figuring two sides of the story. For example, the good side, the bad side. Yeah. So going back to the to our topic is when you can connect your business to your podcast, like teach teaching, the right intrapreneurship and you already will stand out from the crowd because you're a trader and entrepreneur. And there are not lots of traders intrapreneurs there are lots of intrapreneurs, but none many traders, is the classic john D Rockefeller statement, take the path that no one wants to take and you will have success. Yeah, exactly. Do it. And successful people refuse to do that Craig wag one of my clients very, very smart man as well. So um, yeah, I mean, you you have to create this complicated, like a DNA once again, and complicated. visual of yours. And never go to some cliche. Like, we're just podcast for entrepreneurs, how many people do you know, who have podcasts for entrepreneurs, many of them a trader? intrapreneur. And then if you add, like oranges, or something doesn't matter what Yes, specific? Yeah, doesn't matter. For example, in my, in some shows, I have the cost to start the episode with that. I believe that if you don't like pastor, you don't know about this life. Okay, I'm a I'm a great pastor lover. And I know how to cook it. So I mean, that has nothing to do with the content, right? No, it creates bounding experience with people who have passed and there are lots of them. And then start a day, once again, you're giving them their current thoughts, not your thoughts, theirs. And then you add your thoughts. And maybe they will be able to accept this. That that was deep right there. Because that that's kind of what I've been pulling together for this whole conversation is essentially, you need to figure out where your audience is within the layers of your audience, and reaching for that, then be like, Hey, now that I've helped you identify this problem, I could actually help you to, well, you've already did all the hard work for them that I should keep going kind of thing. Mm hmm. You know, people create this bounding experience, not because of the the professionalism of each other, and etc, etc. But because they like each other. I mean, years ago, I worked for this Lloyd's broker agency of john and i had a boss who, actually, you know, first we couldn't do it. He didn't even tell his prospects though, what he was doing, he was trying to figure out who they were. Yeah, I mean, if you know how voice agency works well, they're the agency's intermediary between brokers and clients. So basically, the clients can go directly to the brokers. And they can get, you know, the same conditions and even probably better, but this guy debit. He was on the market for like, 20 years, and he To figure out why. So for the first two weeks, he didn't even tell his prospects that what he was doing. He was because he had this vintage car and about, he was a member in several clubs in London. That's how you learn the member and the ground, the collapse and in MonteCarlo, as well. So he took them to this. Clubs, you know, we all set had this lunch and talked broadly. And then someone, you know, would just come over and ask David about his activity. And that prospect would happen to be right there. And it's an old show. So the main point is, I will not go down the story. But the whole point is this, the man who had basically useless service, created this whole business by being on the side of their client of his clients. Because when the insurance case happens, usually brokers and whites, they're all against the clients, they hate insurance cases. So David built his business upon the fact that he's just going to be a friend of that person when everybody else is not. That it actually is really clever, though. It he made hundreds and hundreds of 1000s of pounds for one meaning. I'm not kidding. No, he totally what insurance is the one business we're like, a billion is just casual. Yeah, yeah. And we worked actually with yocto owners and stuff like that. I mean, it's not like life insurance for one person. And so yeah, there are lots there big money there. And there are people who are really smart. So he developed the whole thing that, okay, okay, I'm going to be your friend. And he created this bounding experience with them by just playing golf, and they didn't even know what he was doing. So, my point here is, people think that their, you know, their audience likes them, because they're professionals and sharing valid valid ideas. Well, I have to tell that is both true and not true. At the same time, people will listen to you because you share valuable ideas for free, but they will like you for reasons that are not connected to your profession. It's so true. The so I listened to about three podcasts, smarter markets, which is the super geeky people getting together how to fix entrepreneurship on the trading system. But then, it was his original ones called macro voices. I did illegal initially, when I listened to him, I hated it. He was all about we're gonna get in on this point of the oil contract. Good get out, go make money was like a football huddle. I might fund this year kind of thing. But then either will not feed back or time and I just I got over that. Now, it's just like the moments when he just slightly lowers his guard is when I truly like appreciate it cuz you'll, you'll like to see this pinion like, because he had a Bitcoin person on He's like, I think bitcoins in absolute fraud, like prove me wrong and kind of thing. Well, I cannot tell that because I'm not I did not invest in Bitcoin, which probably states my position more than it should. But at the same time, you know, it's the same reason why I don't invest in Tesla because I cannot control you know, money. No, it's not that if Tesla. Do you know that one tweet that Elon Musk, you know, shared cost the company $4.9 billion, six months ago, for $14.9 billion were wiped off the market because of one tweet that Elon Musk shared that Tesla price is too high in my own opinion. And that's it. Yeah, or, or is it Rambo's? We're going off track but he's rambunctious like smoking weed on Joe Rogan? He did. Well, that's I think that he just tried to show that he's human. But Joe Rogan, if you're listening to Joe's show, I don't think that anyone goes in there. somber. At least you don't leave Soper. Yeah, exactly. So yeah, it's it's kind of show like that. And Joe Rogan, he's a different type of guy. So I think that this was also planned. But the thing is, I'm more kind of Benjamin Graham and Warren Buffett type of person who likes to predict things that of course The market is unpredictable. But I don't want my money to be on the stuff that depends on one Twitter or something, you know, that is totally can happen every single day. You have the raw emotions, the fear and greed of the market. Yeah. It's like, I joke with my co workers, because they know I'm investing and all that. So what are you investing? What should I get it, I'm like, the really boring stuff, looking at oil. It's only going up with money printing, like in the real estate, it's only going up with money printing. And the thing like, even if the company is failing, the acid, they own oil is still more valuable than the actual business. So they can really easily ride two years out, and it's still pay you dividends. And they just all look at me like that's boring, like I know, but it's how you make money. Exactly how you make money, never invest in something you don't know and don't control. Now, do people make money on those markets? Those emerging markets? Of course they do. Because they're super early. You have to be no, it's, it's, it's a lot you can with the same with the same attitude, you can go to Las Vegas and just bet on the roulette because it's the same, you know, the same chance you will win? And I don't I can't even you know, there are lots of people that come out right here right now and say that bitcoin price is going to be 100,000. Well, good. Some people will make money on that. There are some people who bought it for like my friend. He bought it at $4,000, I think a year ago or when pandemic started. And it's worth 52. He obviously made money. Yes. But it's not just my thing. That's it. It doesn't make me successful. It doesn't make me successful. It's just not my thing. The same as Warren Buffett was saying, okay, there is a lot of tech startups he could have invested in, he passed on Facebook, he paid passed on real things, you know, Amazon, he does one thing he beats himself up over. I don't know, I didn't know if he builds his himself up. Because the reason Warren Buffett is so successful is because he has criteria and he never process it. Once you pass it, that's pretty much it. Okay, it's like, my coach Mike Byers says that wondering is too much 1000 drinks is not enough. He's sober for like 16 years, or 19 years. And when people come to him and say, just have a one drink, he goes wondering is too much 1000s is not enough. So the same goes to the stock market. One time is enough to break your criteria forever. And then the whole portfolio will fly, you know, in the in in the stratosphere. So the reason why Warren Buffett is so successful and so wealthy, although he's, what, 90 years old already? You know, honestly, this is like the conspiracy theory thinking of me. He's totally just gonna live on forever, he'll figure out a way. Only 10 more years to go to. If we're not already there, and we just don't see it yet. Yeah, I guess we just don't say. But anyway, those criterias you can see it doesn't just attract the same Oh, by the way. And as you know, this guy has a criteria and he's website. If you ever went to Berkshire Hathaway, it's a website that looks like it. It was created by a nine year old 10 years ago. It's just a plain. It's just a plain page with a list of the companies or something like that. And that's pretty much it. Berkshire Hathaway could make any type of the website that they want it. But what Warren was trying to show that or anyone who had this idea, I don't know, this website is there for like 20 years, I guess. So he was trying to show that they're not spending money on that. They don't need the unnecessary attention. They do have a website so people can go in and download their reports. But they're not attracting people. People are coming to them, and then the series investors are coming to them. That's one more criteria. Warren Buffett doesn't need enough money. It's just people are trying to join his fund to make money. And he's average over the past 10 years. Were what 15% a year. This is unbelievable for the fund. Something like that. was only like recently his last like three years he hasn't been able to keep up with the s&p 500. But yeah, it was something insane like 13 to, like 18% a year. Yeah, I mean, this guy is a long term guy and he says that You know, you want to make money with me over one year, I'm not a hype, or I'm not this and that is a long term guy. So serious investors are investing with him millions and millions of dollars. And that's why, you know, he's assets grow. So this everything has to do with the criteria. And as you can see his message, his behavior, and his website and everything is consistent with what what he does, it's similar to a, you know, he's not issuing mixed messages. And you know why? Because he has clearly defined what he wants for his business and whom he wants for his business, and whom he doesn't want. And you can always tell that the business has criteria or doesn't have a criteria. So if you want to have a successful podcast, if you want to have a successful business, define the criteria, I'm telling you be very, sometimes even unrealistically positive about what you're demanding. But do that, because 99% of your competitors are not doing that they're ready for everything. And people are fed up with that. People are fed up with average. Yeah. So actually, you touched on something my martial arts instructor has actually been begging me to do, but I don't I don't know how to define it. So actually, I would like your perspective, and everyone else can hear it eventually, if they want to do it if it works out. So he's been asking me to start my own like, mental wellness podcast and I told Mike, everyone, every like hippie on the block has one kind of thing. Like, what am I gonna do different? He's like, tell your story. have others tell you their stories? Have neuroscientists tell exactly why that's happening? kind of thing. And I'm like, No. Okay, that's interesting that that's not two dudes in a garage, smoking weed going, like, we'll fix everything, man. It's just, you got to just go smoke Blue Man. kind of thing. You're actually explaining what what's going on? I'm like, that's interesting. Jeff, I would like your take on it. My look on it is this, if you want to do this, do this. You're thinking too much about the audience? And how, how much value will it bring to them and thinking too little about yourself? Interesting. Okay. Can you explain a little more on that? Sure. I've been talking about that for the last. Yeah, no, like that specific detail? Because, yeah, sure. I mean, when you're starting a business, you should be very centric on yourself. Because if you don't, if you don't have a very high personal interest in what you do, especially when it you know, turns into a podcast, you should only speak on the topic that makes you happy, because you will sell even if you will literally make a podcast about apples and may issue a new episode every week about red apple, green apple and etc, etc. With clearly defined criteria, you will have millions of listeners nowadays. I'm not kidding. I've seen that happen before, not about the apples. But as the stuff I will not mention, because I was part of the project. So we don't don't disclose anything. And yeah, I mean, we had million downloads within the first six months, this is unrealistic for the podcast, but we were able to do that. So the point the point is this, if you really, when you start a podcast, you should ask yourself, if you really lighten up, apologize now with the topic that you're going to talk about. Because once again, with clearly defined criteria, you will have your audience as the world will live in. So this is the only thing you should ask yourself nothing more. You shouldn't ask my opinion. You shouldn't ask the opinion of your friend. But it kind of baffles me that this idea didn't come to you it was initially his idea. And if it's that way, like you caught it up a wait for your idea to come up. Don't go up to someone else's idea. So actually, the only reason he brought it up is because my story with Big Pharma and being mis diagnosed and a lot of his students have been in similar situations. Now it's like I have no problem talking about that. But that's not my my goal kind of thing. That's not I want to essentially you just talked on it and I just wanted to get your your take so the what makes me happy is this is having conversation with someone genuine now. Not even worried about time just truly getting the meat of it. So that truly is what makes me happy. Hmm. Well, the thing is, it should also be totally connected to your business, I don't see any way how that podcast can be connected to your business, well, talking about failures. And then trading is like mixed messages not connected to each other it is. And unless your podcast brings you value and money over time, I can guarantee you your credit within two years. So in order for the podcast to be successful, you should connect the messages, like I explained to you today in this episode, like how the trading can be connected to enterpreneurship. You should connect to that and you should start promoting your services, because that's what will bring consistency. You can see millionaires and billionaires who are sharing, you know, creating ads on their podcast, it's not because they have a lack of money. No, absolutely not. But no, just No, it's just makes them I don't know, countable responsible because they, you know, take all this adds and they have to share episodes because everybody struggles with procrastination. So I don't know a single person and you don't know either, right? It doesn't have it overtime. Who procrastinate. So that's everyone. That's actually the funny part of the joke with was one of my co workers before the lockdowns, they're like, why do you pay so much money for the gym? I'm like, because literally, it hurts my wallet. If I don't go that's like 60 bucks gone, which I could have bought two nice to go meals. So I'm getting my money's worth. So it's this probably Same thing for them. It's like I've paid hundreds of 1000s of dollars for podcasts. And what better? better do it now you've weather Lego tonight? Exactly, exactly. I mean, it's very important. And you should connect this podcast to your business, because that's what will make you issue more episodes, more successful episodes and you will pay more attention, you will treat it as part of your business is the same as I do now with content I was silent for like, I don't know, probably two years, I just shared my pictures and some random posts and thoughts. And then when I already went out from the shadows, because we had this, I was working with fortune 500 companies, I don't want any money. I mean, I'm not interested in massive products and blah, blah, blah. But then I figured that I could write a book, I could create something interesting. And my posts were became more valuable. They're more you know, they're higher quality because I connected it to my business. So what it what it brings us is my audience is benefiting from me connecting those social media and other profiles to my business because they're getting more quality work. High quality posts. Absolutely. No, I have to agree. date your Instagram, like do you have like a photographer by the way? Or is that all by yourself? No, no, I have a photographer I was gonna say some of those angles. But you can't even pull that off of a tripod can. Okay, I have a photographer, we go out, it doesn't matter. It's like, we go out to like every month. And that one the last one was made in my head. My home is I wanted to capture the moment as I you know, work and stuff like that. And my dog's neck but basically, yeah, I mean, you I wouldn't do that. And I wouldn't care. My social media was not, you know, connected to my business. So that's, that's why you should connect everything to business. ads. actually a really good point of view. I'm just okay that I was just thinking about your pictures. I mean, it makes more sense, Mike. Yeah. She has a photographer sorry. Meili. Where I first went well, yeah, I it's one of those. It's actually I don't want to do social media because of the the instant toxic throwing in your face. kind of thing. But it's one of those. It's like, I always tell it to people what I for some reason, don't do it for myself is do what you're afraid of. And then you'll be fine. Because then what is there to lose? And I sit there and I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna go high, mighty go and help you. But then I won't do it myself. Well, the thing is, Josh, I can tell you move into this with the mindset that you're doing. You're really doing your audience disservice that you are not sharing and not selling what you can do best because they want to buy from you. They do their People who want to buy from you right now. And there are people whose lives you will change by saying the right words, not because you're the best guru ever, but because they're more listening to you than they do to Tony Robbins. And they will ever do that. Right? Yes. So there are, you know, we all know that we should get up and do some work and be successful and, you know, save some money trade on the markets and blah, blah, blah. But it's like, yeah, I mean, it's it's general information. So some people think that they have nothing to share anymore, because this information is already in the internet. Well, guess what? It depends on who your who is telling you that? Does your mother tell you that father to tell you that your friend is telling you that or someone who has been through what you have been, and he understands you, or he's just similar to you, but with the bye bye energy, and you will listen to him and not all the other people who were telling you the same thing. So actually, that was the that was the nail in the coffin for me right there. So four years ago, it's back when I realized podcasting was going to be a thing, but not everyone knew what it was. But I was scared. I genuinely know I don't care. Because I realized I can make money. If like the Twitter mobs come in and try to take everything away. I realized now I can make money other means it just suck. It was labor, love kills that kind of thing. But that was the crippling fear was opinions. And then as he as you mentioned earlier, that is still my crippling fear. But I'm getting better at not always taking it in. No, well, I'm telling you, it's just over time, you will realize that there are many things that even if you're repeating the same thing as everybody else does. People, some people will only listen to you and why you're doing disservice is because you're not offering them to come to you. They cannot reach you, they cannot pay you, they cannot come to you, they cannot reach you and they will stay in the same on the same stage that they are now no one else can help these people. But you. Really, I'm telling you there is a group of people seriously, I'm not kidding. No, I, I totally understand. There's a group of people that even if you put Tony Robbins, Richard Branson I don't know Gary Vaynerchuk and Jenna Kutcher in the room, they will not be able to impact them, but you will. And it's that's actually the biggest thing. What I was saying earlier podcast guests I had, I don't remember which one. But they said it's just the way you say it. Maybe you said exactly the same as someone else who has a similar theme. But it was your tone and your inflection. That was all the difference. So like so in that sense. They're like, first of all get over the fact that everything has been re done. You're just reshaping it, but they're like, it's just that moment. That helps everyone. You are not selling anything else. Trust me. Right, you are not selling anything else. Because anything else that people make millions of dollars on right now is available for free on the internet. We all know what to do. But we just don't do it. Right. You are selling. You're just selling your tonality and things that you listed right now. Exactly. And that was the biggest thing where I forgot who like I said it's one of the first few and but it's just the way they said it You're everything has already been done. everything under the sun has already been done. Or like show get over that. And if everyone's saying you're cheating a Steeler? Well, then they probably should look at themselves and what they're posting to the game is just the way he said it was better. And I'm like, wow, he's right. Like, don't worry about them just ubu kind of thing. Yeah, I mean, I do believe that even what I'm saying although I shaped it and named it content DNA. And believe that if you will spend enough number of hours online, you will be able to find the parts of it in different books and you know, different probably articles, different things. The problem. The reason why my system works with fortune 500 companies is I'm talking the language of CEOs. Yeah. And they have different energy. You cannot go to them saying I'm going To change your life, right? They'll be like, Well, shit. Yeah, you can't do that. They just, you know, then they won't even pay attention, they will literally just go out of zoom meeting without saying goodbye. I've done that. As a CEO. I've done that as a CEO, someone started the zoom meeting with me like, Listen, Margo, I'm going to change your life right now. And I was like, This is not me. So this the only reason why I do business. And there, there's always a group of people who will resonate with you only and will not resonate with any other person. Absolutely, you know, that's the problem is the only way to attract these people is to define clearly who and what you are, who you are in what you stand for. Because otherwise they cannot dream of it. Right? Right. So that's what you should start with, you should start with yourself. Really, really sit down and work on your qualities you need to put it that on your paper, not in your mind on on the paper, look at yourself at the on the paper, all your qualities, all your beliefs, what you stand for what you think is wrong with your industry, what you think is wrong with this life. I got a list what you think is wrong with your colleagues? Well, since you know them, it's not like getting personal or something. But which problems do you think they're facing and people similar to them are facing? Because this colleagues is someone you don't want in your business? These are your auntie avatars? No, yeah, exactly true. Like, it was probably before we recorded this, this whole his own conversation getting a little fuzzy now what we were talking about and what we weren't. But it's the two ladies that I had on earlier that we had a great chat and I thought it was going well. One of them I realized like halfway through like the train crashed, but it was the well, it kind of crashed. Let's just keep going kind of thing. It's just the way the interface with me. And that's when I like I told you I should we realized they're not my audience. They're not my target kind of thing. No. Yeah, exactly. You should you've already met this people. This kind of people, you just need to describe them. Describe your auntie avatar, what you stand for define yourself, and people who share your ideas will join you. And who don't share you don't want in your life. Just say no. Everything starts with saying no. Don't be afraid to someone like I see you making notes. Yeah. Shaking back. Did I write that already? Yeah, don't forget to lose big number of clients and potential clients. I mean, we're so good at calculating hypothetical money that we're losing the real one. I think that, well, there is a story that recently happened is that the girl who went out from the wall street as a trader, she was a trader on Wall Street, and she decided to help other people to open their own business. Well, guess what, she didn't have any luck because she she tried to help people who didn't have any money. And when she you know, started her business from Wall Street, she had $3 million. So this is kind of not the, you know, kind of differentiation. She came to me we had this consultation, and I said, why wouldn't you just help financial guys quit their job, which is really, you know, very frustrating for some people. Some people love it, some people don't and help them. And she was like, oh, there are very few financial guys. I want to have broader audience. By the time she came to me. She had like, three clients, I think over two years. But you know, once again, 3 million bucks. Yeah, she she has something to live on. So I googled that there are 6,500,000 people involved in finances right now and even more those who dropped off. So approximately, like eight 9 million people so she refuses to work with them because she has so many people potentially. But at the same time, she only has three clients over two years. And so we started the strategy and guess what it worked. And so now she is, you know, helping her like minded people. So my point is this. Many businesses when they start They are so afraid to define criteria that will wipe off part of the market that they end up attracting no one. So, okay, I want this is actually the biggest thing I've noticed in general for people do you think it's just the fear of commitment? They know it's successful, but they don't want to commit, because maybe there was that percent chance it wasn't. I think they're not confident in their product. Because if you're confident in your product, you don't care how big your audience is. And if you're not confident in your product, then in this case, you're trying to sell everything to everyone and hoping that some percentage will still buy even if it's a crap. Yeah. No, that's this one podcast I listened to. That's how I figured out how to make everything more streamlined and smooth. But he was telling the story of this one guy who was doing whatever podcast he was like targeting like coffee shops kind of thing. Like how to how to get a good latte and what to say. And he was saying how that story, he has 1000s of listeners for every episode, but nobody interacts with his content. He's it now. same person, same concept of a person has a specific, he's like it's sub nice, like, nice to offend a niche. Is it specifically chameleon breeding? He's like, are you gonna actively look that out? obvious. He was asking one way question. And it was just one of those. I said, No, but he said, This man got the white glove treatment, all his audience by his recommendations. No questions asked, and price doesn't matter. He's like, so who really successful hear the one that has maybe 40 listeners an episode, or the one that has 1000s? That could technically quit? But he's like, Who do you want to be? And that's when I realized as silly as this sounds like the chameleon breeder will not like not the actually starting to show on that. But it's like, I have that tribe, that hardcore. Group. Doesn't matter how big it is. Well, that's not quite what I meant once. Oh, interesting. Sorry. Yeah. Regarding show, it's, it's different, you should bring out once again, because it's all about your motivation. If more people will listen to you, you will have more commitment. It's really easy to drop a podcast that has only 40 stable listeners, then drop a podcast that has 40,000 listeners a month. So here's the thing when you shape and list your ideas, there shouldn't be anyone could have them. Okay. But not everyone would have them. Okay. Okay, so. So once again, coming back to the past. Okay, everyone could love past it. But everyone doesn't like past it. That's pretty much it. Although we're in us and everyone loves past. We love our cars here. Yeah, we do. But, for example, I know that somewhere in the world, they don't. So the same thing you should you know, define your thoughts like, you agree with someone you don't agree with someone you should clearly, when I'm talking about Josh, I should define what he stands for and what he doesn't stand for. Okay, no, that's, that's actually interesting. There was a podcast I was listening to, for a while for weight loss. And anyone could ask me, like, what is this guy stand for? And I could say he's all about health, fitness, but also the correct way to die kind of thing. You'll see. And I bet he has a lot of listeners. Yes. And no, he harder hardcore. At a certain point, he started going on a tangent, so I stepped off the train. But I still he has this, he always has a special spot in my heart because it's like that I truly, like you said I can define him. I know who he is without actually meeting him. Well, that got me thinking, by the way that you can be a chameleon breeder in terms of your product, right? Well, there try to be as you know, as narrow down the niche as much as you can. But in terms of podcast, you should be popular. Yeah, it's a it's that trick of unique views. of Well, good example was like talking about customer avatar for earlier. I actually went to pod corn and I saw Bragg's apple cider vinegar on there. I was like, wow, Moses. The first thing that came to mind like, how do I define myself? kind of thing? And that was the moment. I was just thinking, as I was sending a message like this, this is that hard question I need to answer whether I like it or not? Well, you should have opinions on everything. Yes, instant opinions, change them after a while, but you should be very confident about your opinion. Say, I like it, I don't start with your surrounding. I mean, everything is practice, practice, just look around. And we are usually, you know, up to now, when I share some past that can be defined is something political, for example, or something like that, right? Because I have this coast Facebook community of mine, and sometimes I kind of slip my opinion into there. And so I have, I get several calls, including from my assistant saying, Margot, are you sure you want to share this? And I go, yeah, I'm sure. If I have to leave my I mean, it's nothing like it's not an opinion, that is, you know, violating some rules or something. I'm not that kind of person. But I can, I'm able to say that I like or don't like some things. So even in that case, my opinion is so strong that I say that if after that I don't have to do business in the US, that's fine. I will do that in Australia, UK, I have the whole world for that. I need to be able to share my experience my opinion. I don't care. And that's pretty much you know, what, even if someone does not agree with you, they will appreciate the fact that you have an opinion, you took you actually stood your ground when others won't say their opinion. Kind of Yes. And I also appreciate people with their opinion, even they if they are not sharing, even if it does not apply to mine. I can fully agree, agree with the fact that you have opinion. You know, because most people don't, they're like, they're trying to be commanded chameleons, you know, here and there. Yeah, just trying to blend in. We're not trying to stand out kind of thing. Yeah, I mean, it's not that much of standing out. It's more than more like, you know, that's how I think about it. And I'm not afraid to share it. That's pretty much it. It shouldn't get by violence or something like, you know, with with some language written, yeah, I'm not that kind of person myself. I don't care that much about politics. Absolutely not. Because I think that there is a no precedent in the history that built his people, his or her people's lives, okay, people should build their own lives. The only thing that presidents should do is keep the country safe. You should not be able to you know, go out in the street and be afraid for your life. Now, that is something that president does. The rest is up to you is here Why didn't like the people were talking about earlier the sheep that want to be led? Actually, I had a good analogy for it. I always tell my instructor this because he doesn't believe me, like oh, you can't make money trading like Screw you. I said you know, sir, there are two people in this world the oppressor and the oppressed kind of thing and it's really a matter of what side do you do you perceive you're standing on but or you're actually on? And he just kind of looks He's like, Why don't understand what the context is for this. Might you think Wall Street adji can't make you money? There are a bunch of greedy corporate hedge fund guys and why no, they have learned a certain skill, therefore they're not oppressed by the general people. They're only by their peers. They are judged now. They don't have to care about others opinions. said so the one who cracks the whip might actually just be them. Are you the one receiving the crack or use one cracking? And he's like, Oh, no. Interesting. Okay. So context with the the whole thing you were just saying it's it's what side are you on? And or what side are you willing to switch to? Knowing there might be certain comforts now you have to give up, but you can maybe eventually get them later? Yeah, it's a delayed gratification. It's the whole theory of delayed gratification. What are you going to give up right now to gain something you know, more later? The fact is that yeah, I mean, people Our I don't know, it's kind of a deep topic about the mindset of people in general, maybe, maybe it's even good that most people are led by someone. That's evolutionary theory that we would not be able to be a society if everyone was individual with his own opinion. I think I'm a true believer that the humanity would survive if everyone was a leader. I agree. No, I do. It was actually some study. I don't know. I don't know the quoting for it. But essentially, it was the tribal, like the last primitive tribal people that never interacted with normal society. They just monitored it kind of they didn't interfere. And they realized they said, they're like, they're, they truly are community. There's, but they said, there's also a leader, when the leader realizes something's wrong. They all uproot and move somewhere else kind of thing. He's like, so there's even a hierarchy system within the, the primitive people he's, so this is not a new problem. This is how we are. No, it's it's not a bad thing, if the leader is wise and good, because people can focus more on productive on their productive work and not make the decision. And I can tell you that that, you know, most time of my life, especially at the beginning of my career, I was more than happy to be led by my bosses. And this is probably the most The great thing that happened to me because I was working. So I've been working since I was 15 years old. If I came out and said that, okay, I'm a leader. Now, I will do everything on my own. Well, guess what, I wouldn't have this wonderful mentors, I wouldn't get an experience. So at some point, I was, you know, someone was mentoring me, someone was leading me. And yeah, it was like, sometimes good, sometimes bad. I'm not saying it isn't. But the leaders are born and raised that way. The thing is that, you know, there is no good and bad. In this structure. The only thing is that everyone should be happy with where he or she is. Some people just are LED throughout their lives. And they complain. I know, a lot of waitresses, for example, who leave a very happy life. And they're smiling, and they're shiny and bright. And they work on the same position for years. And I'm sure that if I will go to them and say that you can change your life today and do this and that they will say I don't want to, and there's nothing bad in it. Not everyone should be intrapreneur. The other thing is that when the person is working as a waitress, and he or she are miserable, and they're blaming the society, they're they're shouting at their kids, they are living this awful life and maybe even getting drunk and sitting at the wheel and you know, all the stuff. So the they become dangerous for the society they're living in because it becomes aggressive. So this is kind of behavior that should not be in the society that is different. So it the same activity, but whether you're happy with that or not, defines your role and your function. That's pretty much it. Exactly, you know, actually, February of 2020, I still remember this to this day, was I was at night off, I went to a dentist when they were open 24 hours. And essentially the lady's like, Oh, you seem like normal. You're not like the common people have like three I'm on bike. Well, I work night shift. So this is my lunchtime, I'm going to get some pancakes kind of thing. But it was the so I asked the same thing. I said, Well, why are you working this shift when you could be working in daytime and making more tips kind of thing. And she's like, I like it because I can I can be with my kids in the morning and afternoon, sleep the afternoon and work at night and she's like it doesn't interfere stick. Yeah, don't make as much tips. But I have more freedom. So I'm happy perfection. That is perfection. She chose her kids over money. That's her choice and she is happy with that right? Very happy. That's it. Don't offer her to become an entrepreneur. She didn't she doesn't want it. She wants to see her kids and she that is what makes her happy. Happy. That's pretty Not sure. Absolutely not. And that that's what I even told her. I said, Well, because I'm working, I'll give you a nicer tip. And I said, but thank you. Thank you for the insight on that. That was one of those. It might have just been off handed for you. But it means a lot for me. That's that's very true you. Well, you know what, Josh, if you are the person who is conscious and you're ready to observe, you meet many people in your life, and you get into many situations that teach you a lot of things that all the coaches in the world will not be able to. Some of the best situations I've learned was one that paid for. Exactly, exactly. You need to be observant. Absolutely. So Margo, we are definitely going to get you back on in the future if you're up for it. Absolutely. was a lovely talk. I got to know you. And I really love your ideas. Once again, it doesn't matter whether I agree with everything or not but you do. You know, take your stand and you have your personality. The only thing is show that the world moral for me. Thank you. Thank you so much. Yes, and I will see you. Alright, well, Margo, anything on the way out you'd like to put into the show descriptions or plague? Well, first of all, you can find me guys on LinkedIn, it's Margo white. That's pretty much it. I would like to actually tell you that regarding your content or business model, the biggest takeout probably of today's that everything comes out from you and of you. And your content can be as unique as your DNA is. The thing is, you need to get people to love you. And the only thing to do to make that happen is to be unique and to love things that make the you as a person shape you as a person and just stay stay that out. That's pretty much it. I really wish you luck and have a great, have a great rest of the day. And don't forget to share an amazing content with your audience. Thank you Margo. And I wish you same, stay safe and stay well. Thank you very much, Josh. Talk later. Talk later. Bye.